Me>> I don't believe there was anything like a re-formulation of
>> Stygianism or a period where it was "rudimentary".
>Well, the God Learners had invaded Arkat's home turf, stolen and twisted
>his secrets, shattered the United Church of Stygia and then hunted down
>known and suspected Arkati to steal more secrets.
Stealing secrets does not necessary entail that the people, who the secrets are stolen from, lose all memory of those secrets. When the Russians stole the secrets of the making of the atomic bomb, the Americans did not lose those secrets AFAIK.
Furthermore the standard history of the Arkat cult goes:
Membership in his cult was at first discouraged, then outlawed, and eventually became superfluous amidst the growing abuses of the God Learners. Due to this persecution Arkat's cult went underground for centuries, but its remnants helped spearhead the destruction of the hated Jrusteli. Gods of Glorantha Prosopaedia: Arkat
Hence I think that the Arkati survived the God Learner rule and recovered their spiritual might when the membership in his cult switched from being "outlawed" to "superfluous".
>> Sir Ethilrist, who fought for the God Learners and against
>> them at various times during the Imperial Age, has a shrine
>> to Arkat in Muse Roost.
>IIRC, Ethilrist fought both for and against the Stygian Empire,
This might be true but I don't know of anything stating this. There is a period of a century between the God Learner conquest (740 ST) and the severe persecutions of the God Learner Monks (825 ST) in which it seems was the period when being an Arkati was "discouraged". However I think it most probable that he lived during the superfluous phase.
>so his personal knowledge of Arkat secrets might stem from
>the Real Thing.
The knowledge of all Arkati stem from the Real Thing. The God Learner hiatus has changed their religion somewhat but the difference is no less valid than the Restored Lunar Way after the old one had been destroyed by Sheng Seleris.
Some people do claim that old days were better because the Stygians were united. IMO the Arkati churches have always carried within them seeds of disunity and the disputes were tempered in the old days by simple toleration of differences.
But the God Learners destroyed this by oppressing the Arkati so severely that they were forced to become fanatics to survive (fanaticism is a common trait of Arkat no matter what he worshipped). Nowadays Arkati are fanatics and cannot conceive that they could lessen their zeal and still be good Arkati.
>Not that he seems to have proselytized his creed.
Stygianism is not by nature a proselytizing faith. Some portions of it are, but I do not see why every Stygian has to be.
>I really really doubt that the God Learners would have tolerated vile
>Stygianism of these dimensions throughout the Second Age.
The english really really hated popery at a time. That didn't help them in eliminating catholicism from Ireland. Besides the outlawry of Stygianism was really only one period in Imperial Age Safelster and before and after this was simple discouragement and superfluousness. Furthermore, it only applied to those who were Arkati, not to the vast majority.
>Unlike Rokari inquisition, the God Learners (thought they) could
>analyze what kind of magic had been done in a given region.
I don't believe God Learner wizards were involved in the persecutions but that they created special inquisitorial orders that still survive today throughout much of Rokari Safelster. These orders could hunt down or smell out the Arkati by magical methods beyond the keen of God Learners.
The Arkati survived in the Imperial Age because they were capable of striking back occultly against their persecuters and also because whenever the Inquisition was on the verge of success of eradicating all Arkati from an area, one or two of them went rogue, killed their fellow inquisitors and proceeded to rebuilt Arkatism in the area.
But note that this involves the eradication of Arkatism which is distinct from being a Stygian. One could worship pagan gods within parts of the God Learner Empire and so I think worship of pagan gods was heavily penalized but not forbidden. Perhaps the penal taxes raked in more money than orthodox lands...
>During the enthusiastic overthrow of the God Learners by
>crusader-descended lords in 1050, new Stygian communities
>formed when Stygians dared to come out.
Whomever the overlords were, they weren't crusaders as the Crusade had been discredited in the liberation of Seshnela, not the conquest of Stygia. Also by this time, the heat's been off the Arkati for a while.
>The Kingdom of Jorstland might
>even have formed some loose frame for a new Stygian church.
If they ever had a frame for a Stygian Church, it was unworkable. I think they mainly governed by virtue of the titles the nobility inherited from the God Learners.
Nitpick: I don't think the alliance of the three rivals resulted in the formation of Jorstland, which occurs a little while later as none of the three rivals are actually named Jorst. The three rivals formed circa 1040 while the first date we have for Jorstland is 1180, although they've conquered Tanisor at this time.
>> Hence when [the Trader Princes] do show up in the Holy
>> Country, their stygian mysteries would have some impact
>> on the Hendreiki.
>So here we have a group of Stygians freely teaching their mysteries?
>How God Learnerish...
You must have the God Learners confused with somebody else and I never said such teaching was free. Interchange of mysteries still would occur, especially when the public face of the Trader Princes is the God of Trade and Communication. After all, these Princes did pick up some followers among the Wenelian Orlanthi who are more different than the Heortlanders. Imagine their attraction to the Aeolians?
>In case of Issaries in his trader aspect, I doubt much Stygianism
>is required.
But they are still Stygians nevertheless. Issaries' worship is their road to Arkati and without Arkati among them, they can't do much.
>Their influence on the Heortlanders - Orlanthi and Aeolian alike - was
>bringing the concept of chivalry and similar Malkioni virtues, sold by
>master salesmen and miraculously failing to sell the downsides (to
>Theyalan palate), like rigidity in the caste system and suppression of
>serfs.
What rigidity in the caste system and what suppression of serfs? The Trader Princes are not bringing in the Rokari social system, they are bringing in the Safelstran social system.
Powered by hypermail