Torture camping and the Kralorelan state

From: David Cake <dave_at_starfish.net.au>
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:58:58 +0800


>> They govern through a massive state and bureaucratic apparatus,
>
>They do not have a massive state and bureaucratic apparatus. There
>is only one bureaucrat for a thousand people and even if you count
>in his helpers,

        One mandarin for a thousand people, perhaps, but they have such a large number of functionaries that they seldom have to deal with the public directly, and thats only those directly concerned with mandarin business, let alone those employed by the various arms of the well equipped army or various other state endeavours (those enormous bridges, for example).

>then you'll find that Orlanthi are more heavily
>governed.

        The Orlanthi have a higher proportion of the populace directly attached to the rulers household, but rather less paperwork, time spent directly on ruling, etc.

>>Its not an oppressive police state
>
>So why were you intent on a gulag system for the punishment of
>the worst criminals

        By not a police state I mean they only use their gulags for the punishment of the worst criminals, not petty dissidents, unpopular minorities, and anyone who doesn't toe the party line. The police operate according to the dictates of the legal system, not simply act to suppress the populace at the whims of the rulers.

> And what do the
>Kralori _now_ use, given that those camps have been abolished
>for two centuries?

        Transportation to ignorance? Freelance torture? They don't bother to torture/reform them, just execute them? A combination of the above? Improvise at the will of the mandarin?

>> But they do, for example, sack cities for not paying their taxes on
>>time.
>
>They do no such thing.
>
>What is actually said was that the City of Sha Ming never pays it taxes
>on time _and_ has been sacked by the Emperor's armies several times.

        You could choose to infer that the juxtaposition of those two phrases in the same sentence with an 'and' in between was not meant to imply any connection between the two whatsoever. I don't.

        Yes, there are also other reasons why the Empire might sack the capital of Boshan as well, which may (in a broader polito-historical sense) not be unconnected to the non-payment of taxes.

        In any case
>Hence the Kralori sacking of Sha Ming is not because the taxes were
>late but because the province was revolting...

        which would, again, tend to indicate that they rule, not via goodwill, but via military force when necessary.

>>He was a foreign leader who had honourably surrendered to the Exarchs.
>
>I don't see anything honorable about the surrender.

        Well, it wasn't a dishonourable surrender particularly. But if that one word bugs you, strike it out forthwith!

>>And they didn't hate him that much, at this point - but they
>>didn't like him much either, if he surrenders to the ITC because
>>he has a problem with slavery its no skin off their nose.
>
>Which makes a seismic shift what what David was so confidently
>asserting before: "Sheng was not thrown in there because they
>wished to help his spiritual progress, but because they wanted
>to hurt him."

        He decided he didn't want to be a slave anymore, so they punished him. Shengs attitude changed - from being a slave (which was OK by the Kralori), to not wanting to be a slave (which wasn't, so they wanted to punish him). Its not that they hated him in particular, but if he doesn't want to be a slave, he has to be punished.

>He didn't refuse common slavery, he served for two years. But
>finally he asked if he could join the ITC because he was so
>consumed with bitterness at his current condition.

	Sheng:'I will no longer be a slave'
	Kralori:'if you do not accept slavery, it will be a horrible
punishment for you'
	Sheng: 'I am not afraid of your punishments, bring it on. Give me
the worst you've got. I will take any alternative to slavery.'
	Kralori: 'very well. Its for your own good, mind.'
	<Sheng is dragged away>


	Cheers
		David

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