Having got my Gloranthan stuff out of storage there's a few points on my Argrath son of Argrath post I'd like to correct/add to:
Argrath is the son of Brenna who is the daughter of Verlain a son of Duke Dorasar and a slave woman.
KoS then goes on to describe AoP as 'half-breed scum' which implies that either a parent or grand-daughter was of hostile alien blood (which probably means Praxian in the Pavic context) - I'd suggest that this is the slave woman who was Verlain's mother rather than AoP's un-named father who in my theory is Garrath Sharpsword/Argrath senior
2) Other Argrath genealogies
There are four other Argrath genealogies in KoS three of which are broadly compatible with each other in that they agree that Argrath's father was called Maniski, while the fourth in 'Argrath and the Colymar' makes him the son of Venharl and has no relationship (i.e common names) to any of the others.
This is understandable if as stated in Argrath's Saga both of his parents
(Maniski and the thunderqueen) were killed before he reached the age of 7 in
which case Venharl is a foster-parent (rather as Jesus has two completely
different genealogies in the Bible - one being Joseph's).
Incidentally despite belonging to the long vanished Karandoli clan of the Colymar (Jane Williams has a theory that they only went to Pavis although 'Argrath and the Colymar' seems to imply that they are living somewhere on The Other Side) Venharl is still around in Sartar circa 1613 as he aids friends of Queen Leika from Greg's original Sartar campaign.
In my original post I had forgotten that one of the three Maniski genealogies gives Argrath another line of descent to Sartar through his mother's descent from Onelisin Catwitch and Eonistaran the sage rather than Duke Dorasor - meaning that both of my Argrath's are eligible to light the flame of Sartar although Argrath of Pavis has double descent through Argrath and Brenna and thus roughly twice as much of King Sartar's blood flowing through this veins as either the older Argrath, Kallyr or Temertain.
3) The connection between the Garhound clan and the House of Dorasor
'The farmers in this district are the descendants of the followers of Sir Declan Garhound a kinsman of Duke Dorasor' (Sun County - the spelling seems to oscillate randomly between Dorasar and Dorasor in the sources).
My suggestion is that the connection was established by Verlain son of Dorasor marrying a daughter/sister/whatever of Sir Declan Garhound and that Brenna is the result of this match - after all we know about both of Verlain's parents and any other connection would probably imply a connection to Sartar himself rather than Dorasar and it is unlikely that the Lunar's would have left the Garhound's in peace after 1610 unless the relationship was purely by marriage.
4) Chronology of the House of Dorasor
P&BR has several dates for Pavis County history:
Late 1540's Dorasor preliminary expedition to Pavis at which point he meets Varthanis Brighthelm a lord of the Yelmalio county seeking allies against the Impala tribe and who according to Jane Williams' Secret History of Sun County returns to Sartar with him and goes on to join Monrogh's new Sun Dome Temple in Dragon Pass.
1550 Dorasor returns accompanied by a number of Sartarites including a group of Sun Dome Templars led by Varthanis and founds New Pavis - subsequently Varthanis returns to Sun County and expels the Impala riding overlords (KoS implies a conflict between Dorasor and Varthanis as a result of which V leads 'half the tribes' east to found the Sun Dome Temple)
1567 Varthanis becomes Count of Sun County and according to Jane continues the Yelmalion reformation.
1572 A nomad attack on New Pavis nearly succeeds due to the treachery of Praxians living within the city and leads to savage bloodshed and the expulsion of the nomads whose camps are hitherto forbidden to come more to within than 30km south of the city.
This would in my view lead to the stigmatising of those who like Verlain have Praxian blood as half-breed scum and coincidentally would open up the rest of the valley to settlement by Sartarite farmers (Garhound and the border with Sun County are incidentally a bit under 30km SE of Pavis which I'd suggest is the extent of the pale of settlement in all directions around Pavis established after 1572 - remembering that in RQ2 all the nomads lived in an extremely overcrowded Prax rather than being scattered around the Wastes).
1575 Duke Dorasar comes to Sun County ending the Solitude of Testing and offers an alliance to help Varthanis clear the valley of nomads.
i.e. up to 1575 Sun County was still isolated from Pavis and according to the KoS account relations were not necessarily friendly. Therefore this provides us with the earliest likely date for the foundation of Garhound. I'd suggest that it is around this time that Dorasar's son Verlain marries into the Garhound clan.
As 1575 is also the year Tarkalor marries the FHQ and that Sartar achieves the apogee of it's power it's conceivable that he and/or Monrogh (who is still around as he swears allegience to Tarkalor that year) make this expansion possible by sending additional troops and settlers to help out the colonists - or maybe they just send an embassy to resolve the earlier conflict between Dorasor and Varthanis.
'Dorasar lived as duke until 1579... none of Dorasar's heirs could take the title nor could any other. After Dorasar's death Pavis was ruled by a council of the leaders'
This clearly implies that Dorasar had heirs who did try and take power - of these heirs the only one we have a name for is Verlain whose half-Praxian blood is hardly likely to have endeared him to the citizens just seven years after the war.
My suggestion is therefore that Verlain is forced to leave Pavis after an unsuccessful attempt to win power and ends up in Garhound where his wife's family are able to protect him (and the Sun County border is nearby)and that a some point around 1585 or so he has a daughter Brennna who is the Garhound Harvest Queen in 1603.
5) Garrath Sharpsword chronology up to 1625
In 1603 'young Garreth Sharpsword' wins the Garhound contest which is followed by the marvellous harvest of 1604 (Sun County).
As Argrath's Saga states that he fled Sartar for Pavis at the age of 14 after killing Lunar tax collectors he must have arrived in Pavis in late 1602 or early 1603 and would have been no more than 15 at the time of the contest.
An interesting question is why he felt the need to change his name so early on - presumably as Argrath Maniskisson he was on some sort of Lunar wanted list but this must have been true of hundreds of other Sartarite exiles at the time.
In 1614 Biturian Varosh's marriage ceremony is conducted in Adari by the Orlanthi wind-priest Argrath Dragonspear who is identified with Garrath by their common relationship with Jarang Bladesong (who is Garrath's lieutenant in the Cradle and also appears after 1625 in Minaryth's Blue's Events of My Life').
This suggests that Argrath maintains two distinct identities at this time as the well known adventurer and weaponmaster Garrath Sharpsword in Pavis and as the Orlanthi priest Argrath Dragonspear in Adari (oddly the Dragonspear doesn't appear in the list of Argrath's draconic connections in KoS so he must have lost it by 1625)
I also think he is probably Argrath Whitebull to the Praxians as well by this stage.
By 1621 and the Cradle Garrath Sharpsword is 'a famous instructor who lives
in Oldtown. He is known to worship Orlanth Adventurous and has spent time
among both the nomads of Prax and the Wolf Pirates of teh Rozgali Ocean'
(P&BR p132).
It is thus clear that Argrath's adventures with the Bison Riders and his founding of the White Bull Brotherhood had taken place by 1621 as he floats off out of Prax that year and spends three years with Harrek before returning to raid Kethaela and liberate Pavis with the Barbarian Horde in 1625.
(The reference to his having already sailed with the Wolf Pirates before
1621 surprised me - as Argrath's Saga states that he did not know Harrek
when his ship found the Cradle this must have taken place before Harrek
joined the Wolf Pirates in 1617)
All of this seems to give us a pretty clear idea of what this Argrath was up to between 1602 and 1625.
6) Argrath of Pavis chronology up to 1625
Argrath of Pavis is however clearly a very different person from Garrath Sharpsword:
For a start he is not of pure Sartarite descent, and is evidently born in Pavis County rather than Sartar.
He is descended from Brenna, Verlain and Duke Dorasar and has no evident Colymar links.
Based purely on the known dates for Dorasar Verlain could have been born anytime between 1545 and 1579 but a date in the 1550's would seem sensible.
Brenna would therefore be born somewhere between 1570 and 1590 making her old enough to qualify as Harvest Queen in 1603. (I would suggest that Brenna's mother was the daughter of Sir Declan Garhound and that she was also a Harvest Queen and that Verlain won her in one of the earlier Garhound contests sometime after he is driven from Pavis in after 1579)
The first date we have for Argrath of Pavis is that he escapes Lunar assassins after 1610 by hiding amongst the common people of Pavis - whereas Garrath is clearly a quite well-known figure living openly in Pavis.
He makes his living by 'conveying nightmare laughs' and singing rude songs to the Lunar soldiers - an activity which somehow helps him to learn important things about the Lunar's deepest fears - thus my description of him as a 'minstrel/psychotherapist - although on reflection he sounds more like a Trickster, a Shaman (perhaps even a Jakaleel Witch?) or someone whose somehow learned something of East Isles dream magic.
As a result he is called 'Bad Dream Enostar'('Convey Nightmare Laugh 1ww' and 'Sing Rude Song 5w'?).
At some point he seems to have been forced to spend time in the Rubble after Sor-Eel cleared Riverside and the Farmer's quarter in a failed attempt to gentrify them.
He was employed by one of the foreigners (probably a Lunar)at the time the Cradle and had no interest whatsoever in saving it.
He is only converted to Orlanth after 1621 when he almost dies from a plague that the Lunar priests are powerless to heal - suggesting strongly that he was not initiated as an Orlanthi before then and may indeed have actually belonged to a Lunar cult (how about the Lunar School of Red Masks which Martin Laurie has Morthander Deville organising around 1620).
While Argrath Whitebull in several accounts comes to attack Pavis at the head of thr Barbarian Horde, Argrath of Pavis has with all the zealousness of a new convert built up an anti-Lunar resistance group that attacks the Lunars from the rear and opens the gate to the nomads.
Argrath of Pavis only reveals his ancestry after the sack and stays behind to rule the city while Argrath Whitebull leads the nomads west against Sartar
It seems fairly clear therefore that Argrath of Pavis is a son of Garrath Sharpsword, born in Garhound in 1604, taken to Pavis in 1610(on the assumption that this was the last place Lunar agents looking for members of the line of Dorasar in Garhound would expect to look), brought up in the poorer quarters of town, fraternising with the Lunars, and only becoming aware of his ancestry and becoming an Orlanthi revolutionary leader some time after the Cradle and perhaps not even learning of his true identity until he meets Argrath Whitebull after the fall of Pavis.
Comparing the two Argrath's it strikes me that a novelisation of Garrath Sharpsword/Argrath Whitebull's life before 1625 would be very Conan-like while Argrath of Pavis' life would be a lot darker and more interesting and need a Tanith Lee or Jack Vance in his dying earth phase.
6) The two Argraths after 1625
Looking back over KoS and my notes I am still far from clear as to which Argrath marries Kallyr or which FHQ and realise that the whole Mularik episode takes place after 1631 when I am inclined to think at least one of the Argrath's has dropped out of the picture so maybe this is not such a neat solution to that problem.
However it still seems clear that there are two Argrath's (or maybe two main Argrath's...)around for at least the first ten years of the Hero Wars and that my solution does actually resolve some of the questions about Argrath's and Kallyr's different regnal dates in sources that are meant to be nearly contemporary to the events they describe as of course in 1640 when the CHoDP was compiled everyone knew there were two Argrath's and the author didn't need to point out which did what - particularly if as seems to be indicated by Minaryth Blue they feel out big time around 1630 and this needed to be carefully skated over.
Anyway just a theory which Sartar Rising may completely explode if it includes a more detailed chronology than KoS - although I rather hope it doesn't as it's much more fun having Argrath as a figure of mystery(who was that masked Orlanthi?)
Roger
You gotta run, you gotta run, you gotta run to the city of Refuge...(Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - Tender Prey)
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