> >But wait, just to use your examples, horseflesh - that would be running
> >away self evidently.
>
> But horses aren't kept in yurts, are they? And if they run away,
> then the Rathori can fire into the herd and expect to hit a couple.
Which will then mean that the Rathori have to somehow carry a dead horse (or take the time to strip it) while being chased across the steppe by many really mad horse-nomads.
>
>
> >Weapons, well, they'd be
> >being used. I can't think of a less efficient way to get a weapon than to
> >try to rip it out of a warrior's hand?
>
> Perhaps you have forgotten what the eastern Rathori do not have
> metal weapons and the CharUn do? The Praxians do raid the
> Orlanthi and other people for those necessities.
But the Orlanthi are not nomads and the Praxians are. The discussion was foot bound technologocially moronic barbarians raiding war-hardened horse nomads.
>
>
> >Leather goods...seriously?
>
> Yes.
>
> >The
> >Rathori would leave the forest full of animals to go onto the steppe -
> >totally out of their natural environment, and a region second only to a
> >desert in lowest animal population per hectare (ok, third after arctic and
> >desert) - to get Leather goods? That's pretty silly.
>
> What is animal population density got to do with this since worked
> leather goods are not found in the wild? The CharUn have a higher
> technology than the Rathori as can be seen in their clothing
> (worked leather and crude hides). Hence CharUn leather goods will
> have value in Rathori society.
Are you serious?! Even the Inuit and the Lapps know how to work leather - they use stones and their teeth. Are you trying to tell us that the Rathori can't? That would place them somewhere below the neanderthal in the brains department and deserving of extinction.
>
>
> > > >Even if the Rathori did defeat a yurt, they would have a hell of a job
> > > >getting out with theirr loot, especially as they can't ride the horses
> > > >and the horses would not want to go with them and would resist.
>
> > > Horses are not the only loot in a yurt.
>
> >They're the only wealth that couldn't be easily tossed onto a horse and
> >ridden away.
>
> Yurts and their contents themselves cannot be easily tossed onto a horse
> and ridden away.
>
> >You don't have to pack up the tent to run away with the money, and if the
> >money's gone, why risk your skin (as a raider) to grab an empty tent?
>
> Perhaps you ought to look at Praxian Housing on p12 of the Players
> Book: Genertela where it makes the distinction between house tents
> (everything is unpacked for stays of more than a week in one area)
> and travel tents (smaller, less comfortable, defensible etc). The
> Pentans will have similar living arrangements and thus to suggest
> the Pentans can toss everything and ride away at all times is just
> plain silly.
Steve did not say "everything", he said "money" and "wealth". What is wealth to a Char Un pure-horse nomad? Horses, metal, sons, weapons. I do not see any of these being unable to be tossed on a horse and moved immediately. Anything else in the tent can easily be replaced (or retrieved off of the bodies of the technological morons who tried to take it in the first place).
Granted, I am assuming that the Char Un do not keep 10 gallon wrought-iron cooking pots. Most of a Char Un's metal is going to be in his hand (sword) on his back (armour) or on his horse (bit, stirrup, buckles). He would eat with his dagger. His woman would skin and cook with her knives (which would be tossed in her purse and then she is tossed on a horse). I see most of their cooking containers being leather bags or wooden spits. Not much left for the Rathori to be interested in.
>
> > > >If the Char Un use them for food, and most of the hoofprints represent
> > > >beasts sans riders, doesn't that mean that they'd have LOTS of remounts?
>
> > > No, for the simple reason that most horses are unfit for riding, just
> > > like most trollkin are unfit for warrior duties.
>
> >Totally, utterly disagree. Completely. Worked 2 years (summers) as a
> >rancher in Montana/Wyoming, very frequently had to deal with wild mustang
> >herds. I would expect that a horse herd is a horse herd. These were wild
> >mustangs that had never been broken or human-trained.
>
> You have obviously forgotten that these mustangs were descended from
> Spanish horses that had been bred to take a rider for something like
> two thousand years. The CharUn horses are not in the same position
> as they are bred for things meat food, milk, draft and carriage.
> Under such circumstances, you will tend to get a diversification of
> specialized types just like you do for _cattle_.
>
Are you saying that the Pentans have not been riding their horses for 2,000 years? GRoY says rather clearly that nomads from the east invaded the Empire in the early Darkness. Who was Jenerong? I also have worked a farm and I don't care what kind of horse it is, if it has been part of a herd that has been domesticated for 3 millenia it is going to be ridable without much effort.
>
> Wesley Quadros:
>
> >How are you defining small? If the Arrolians keep the Dara Happan
> >standards then from the 120,000 population they could easily have
> >5,000 or more soldiers (plus the ragged peasants and city dwellers).
>
> I don't think they are Dara Happans considering they have rejected
> the concept of Empire, which would be blasphemy for Dara Happans.
>
I was mentioning Dara Happans as they probably have one of the smallest army-to-population ratios around.
Peter also asked why a clan would travel together. Isn't that the reason and definition of a clan? The group of people (family?) that you hang out with, travel with, fight with. The Chief is the person who owns the warrior's loyalty, if I were a simple rider I would stick close to the guy with all of the swordsmen and archers. I would camp within the circle of patrols, I would keep my horses where they warriors could help me protect them and my children would be kept close. The Shamans also talk to the Chief giving him advice on the spirits and together they determine where the clan should go next. Why would I wander off alone from them?
Wesley Quadros
Cruise Director
Celtic Webs Internet Publishing
www.celtic-webs.com
wquadros_at_celtic-webs.com
"Voyage Upon the Oceans of the Mind"
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