>> If we use the (literal) Gloranthan metaphor of >> psychological/spiritual/redemptive states as geographic >> locations on the Other Side, if you 'die' in said keel >> hauling you may emerge from the water in another, 'worse' >> hell, on another ship. There are many, many more-or-less >> unique hells.
Alex:
> I'm not sure which keel-hauling is the said one,
In Styx water, to cleanse the subject from irritating memories.
> some important context, but broadly speaking I agree, if you die in
> a particular way 'mundanely', you'll presumably end up in an
> 'appropriate' Hell (though according to Orlanthi belief, say, your
> god will get to put in a good word first),
It appears you land on the road (or rather, fall or downslide) there, and if your god thinks highly of you, she might snatch you off.
> (None of this seven days inward mystic journey
> namby-pamby stuff.)
To each their own 7-day purgatory?
>> More generally, dying in hell will take you to another place. >> Its not so much death is terminal, but that death is *a* terminal.
> More like a (general) node, if you ask me... Dying may just be
> a 'stage' on your quest, especially by the sounds of some of this
> funky deep-masochist Pelorian stuff...
But there's dying according to script, and dying out of script. The first is comparatively easy to recover from (just impossible, not miraculous).
>> The Golden Age (a nice place to visit, though boring, lethargic >> and probably overrun by pokemon) has by definition no hell: if >> Humakt kills grandfather mortal there then grandad is suddenly >> somewhere else.
By the Hero Wars definition, this event might already be reachable from Storm Age. (After all, storm gods were around).
>> (And Humakt/humakti HQer is suddenly in the Storm Age?
There's nowhere else he could be. Late Golden Age, i.e. after the birth of Umath, is early Storm Age. In the role of Humakt, you don't get further back.
> There are probably
> untold ways of getting from the Golden Age to the Storm Age, but at
> least from an Orlanthi PoV this is pretty much the defining one.
An "Orlanthi" using the Ernaldan (Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, or possibly Elmal, or Heler) perspective might be able to witness the full amount of the dull Golden Age, and with some luck even the interesting parts when Sky was young and brutal. Golden Age sucks mightily - you don't have any meaningful storm powers.
> (Well, that and the death of Yelm -- you wouldn't want everything to
> be _too_ clear-cut, would you now?)
That's just the exact transition to Lesser Darkness. If you fly with the Vadrudi, you have lots of fun before that.
Was Orlanth "betrothed" when he snuffed Yelm?
> You mean souls in some poetic sense that loss of same
> wouldn't physically kill one, but would instead leave one in some
> sort of parlous moral or spiritual state?
Vivamort has lost his soul, I would think, but neither his body nor his identity (which appears to be linked to spirit in some way, since animists and animistically inclined theists can contact individual ancestors).
> From the casual nature of death and resurrection implied by trollball
> rules, I've often wondered if the pitches were little enclaves sacred
> to Kargan Tor, and thus, 'Humakt-free zones'.
According to one slightly unusual theory floating around in discussions about stuff for Drastic Darkness, of course the pitches are sacred to Karrg an (Li)Tor. Master of Weapons, indeed, and no edged weapons allowed.
> In the modern mundane
> world though, I don't think this really works simply be 'excluding
> death' -- you have to subvert the normal process in some manner or
> another, and pretty much stuff that unfortunate spirit back on it
> there, etc...
I don't really think so. The Praxian Ball of Tails treasure is little different from Peaceful Cut wrt Otherworld conditions, IMO.
> For HQing purposes, it certainly poses a puzzler or two. If I go back
> to the Golden Age, and cut some fellah's head off, what happens?
I could attach it to a handle and get a spade, for instance. Happened to Lodril.
> Am I weilding Death, with consequences as above, or am I just
> having a bit of harmless dismemberment fun?
Unless you have worked towards bringing death to the Golden Age, I'd assume the latter.
I'm unsure whether separation into 49 separate parts would annihilate the victim nonetheless.
> What is it that determines the
> difference: is it the act sword that I brought with me, which has a
> little bit of death inside it?
Have you gone to Hell and brought that sword back past its guardians? In that case, you have brought death to the Golden Age. Otherwise, you lost that little bit of death on your way, and all you have is an oversized and unelegant knife which may cause the assembled courtiers to snicker at you.
> Is it in my own person (my soul, my
> lethal intent, my spirit, whatever...) in some manner?
I guess there are numerous other myths of how Death was brought to the world, but most will be tied to a visit at the lowest Hell, Subere's realm in Theyalan myth.
If you want Death the easy way, have Eurmal and some unfortunate associate go to Hell, and gamble for it afterwards.
> Is it more to do with the manner of the decapitation, and what
> 'story' it appears I'm here to perform (or am performing,
> regardless of my actual intent).
I think it's rather the story (mythic environment) you drop into.
Entekosiad has some weird stuff about the spirits of killed prey of the log walkers which aren't reborn because the paintings weren't made. Still, these killings were not Death in the sense of going to an afterlife, but being shoved out into some bland inactivity, ready to be called back.
I'd be interested whether the Esrolians have a myth about Ty Kora Tek performing a mighty quest to ensure that, even with capital "D" Death around, such a recycling could be made. Ernalda's quest in KoDP touches this problem only on the surface, and Uralda's quest, hard as it is, teaches acceptance of this cycle from the side of the living rather than confirmation of the return to life. It seems to me that TKT sacrificed her life so that her guests could return after their stay.
Thinking about KoDP quests, doesn't Elmal's reknitting ability look very much like he retained a personal Golden Age ability even in fighting Chaos?
Another thought about Elmal - it is strange that he has no conflict with the trolls, but only chaos enemies.
Powered by hypermail