Nick:
>OK by me. I am keen, however, for the idea that Proxies *usually* look like
>Moonson to make it into the public domain, for all sorts of good reasons.
>Nothing I have seen thus far in Greg or Martin's work supported this. So
>I'll keep on doing it myself 'til it sticks.
Here is the crux of the matter, from my POV. When I talk about a proxy, I don't _necessarily_ consider the proxy to be one of person, but one of power. The Golden Proxy is not the proxy for the Emperors _person_ but for a power he posesses and enacts. As that power is merely a part of him rather than the whole, then the proxy does not need to look like him, as he is not the proxy for the Emperor, but merely one of his powers.
Plainly for a proxy, whose job is to replace the Emperor at functions where the Emperors physical presence is expected, to _not_ look like the Emperor, would be silly.
This leaves the Proxy situation open to both direct physical immitation and for power proxification (not physical).
Alex:
> I can also see amusing game situations in a player (in a suitably
> high-level game), or a pre-existing NPC being 'proxied', without
> having to go around in a rubber mask for the duration.
Nick:
>I agree, but think (given the anal DH pernickitiness of the new material
>coming out about Moonson) that this will shortly be rendered as soundly
>non-canonical as any other good recent speculations by an Issaries
>hit-squad.
Alex puts forward an idea I'm all in favour of. If it gets assailed by an Issaries "hit-squad" then I won't be in it. It should be perfectly possible for the players to see and experience the Proxy situation, both the Emperor look-alikes _and_ the Proxies of power.
>After all: if Moonson can elevate an ordinary person into a Proxy, and
>Proxies can be confused with Moonson, then an ordinary person could become
>Moonson (after a less cocked-up Proxy War, say). And that's clearly Not On
>(per canon sources),
Yep, that is "not on", as you say. An ordinary person cannot become the Emperor as the Emperor is an entity in his own right, even after death.
>because it creates too many intriguing and amusing plot
>ideas for Gloranthan campaigns, leaving you less dependent on the Official
>Version.
Your Glorantha may vary but its got nothing to do with cutting out interesting ideas. What it has to do with is very simple. The nature of the Emperor is defined as singular and the idea of a Proxy becoming the Emperor goes against that definition. The Emperor is a demigod and is not and has never been a human. There was a human at his genesis and there are humans involved in his returns but the actual entity we know as the Red Emperor is not just a body, he is a gestalt of soul parts and mystical concepts that transcends his physique.
>So I think you'll find that Martin has already written up the One True Way
>for Proxies to be created, which everyone in the Empire knows about, so that
>nobody important is ever confused by Moonson's plethora of
>(non-)impersonators.
>Or something like that.
Nah, there is going to be confusion. but you don't need a stream of doubles for that. Simple ingorance and personal prejudices will work just fine. Most people have no clue as to the Emperors real appearance. Should someone with a lot of power and a following say he's the Emperor and everyone knows the Emp died recently, then there are many, many reasons why large numbers of people will believe him and obey his will. Of course this poses problems for otherwise loyal citizens who join the Emperor against his evil proxies to find that their dude is the proxy after all...
Confusion and chaos are vital and there is plenty of scope for that in this approach.
Martin Laurie
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