Unless the Proxiness is sufficiently minor, or the circumstances so particular, that the obviousness of the transposition isn't crucial, perhaps.
> Alex puts forward an idea I'm all in favour of. If it gets assailed by an
> Issaries "hit-squad" then I won't be in it. It should be perfectly possible
> for the players to see and experience the Proxy situation, both the Emperor
> look-alikes _and_ the Proxies of power.
A most enlightened position. Immediately I suspect that wasn't posted by the Real Martin, but the Reasonableness Proxy. ;-)
> >After all: if Moonson can elevate an ordinary person into a Proxy, and
> >Proxies can be confused with Moonson, then an ordinary person could become
> >Moonson (after a less cocked-up Proxy War, say). And that's clearly Not On
> >(per canon sources),
> Yep, that is "not on", as you say. An ordinary person cannot become the
> Emperor as the Emperor is an entity in his own right, even after death.
Sounds like one of these incredibly hard object identity (or if you prefer, pointer equality) tests... The important point is surely that while it may be clear (to at least some of the people, some of the time) who's actualkly emperor, and more especially, who is in the process of 'becoming' (i.e., being recognised as truly being) the Emperor -- but that none of the 'possibilities' could reasonably be described as 'ordinary'.
> Your Glorantha may vary but its got nothing to do with cutting out
> interesting ideas.
Your saying that interesting ideas aren't going to be cut out, then, or just that if that happens it was collateral damage, not something specifically on the target list?
> What it has to do with is very simple. The nature of the
> Emperor is defined as singular and the idea of a Proxy becoming the Emperor
> goes against that definition. The Emperor is a demigod and is not and has
> never been a human. There was a human at his genesis and there are humans
> involved in his returns but the actual entity we know as the Red Emperor is
> not just a body, he is a gestalt of soul parts and mystical concepts that
> transcends his physique.
Which is as far from a situation that necessitates a simple answer, even at Level Four, as to who the heck he is in terms of a given sets of 'physiques' as I could imagine, off the top of my head. You may it sound as if there's an invisible silver sign over his head at all times saying 'this is the real emperor', so any ambiguity as to who he is at any given moment is best accounted for by supposign sufficiently naive Gloranthans, unable to discern such. It seems to me very likely that at times almost _no-one_ in the empire knows for certain who the real emperor is -- not even them-- eh, I mean, him.
> Nah, there is going to be confusion. but you don't need a stream of doubles
> for that. Simple ingorance and personal prejudices will work just fine.
> Most people have no clue as to the Emperors real appearance. Should someone
> with a lot of power and a following say he's the Emperor and everyone knows
> the Emp died recently, then there are many, many reasons why large numbers of
> people will believe him and obey his will. Of course this poses problems for
> otherwise loyal citizens who join the Emperor against his evil proxies to
> find that their dude is the proxy after all...
And to go somewhat further: it's at least possible for the Golden Proxy (say) to become a 'genuine' Emperor of Dara Happa (at least for starters), in such circumstances. (GRAY and tFS makes it clear how low a bar this is, after all...) Add in a spot of heroquesting, and a political faction that might very well be inclined to not much care about the rest of his imperial chores ("Dara Happa for the Dara Happans!") and I can see real scope for more thana momentary confusion as to who is the 'Real' Emperor.
Cheers,
Alex.
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