<< I guess one question is: if (say) Roan-Ur had succeeded in becoming Lunar Emperor, would he become the Red Emperor? >>
My answer would be 'yes', but I think its clear that the official version would have to say 'no'.
<< I do like MOB's interpretation of this, and hopefully the final write-up can have enough ambiguity to support both the old and new views.>>
Agreed.
Martin Laurie:
<< >The leaders of these groups - though not necessarily their
>followers - know what they're doing, but do it anyway because its the best
>chance they're going to get.
Yes. There are other reasons too. You have to remember that many of the higher ups in the Empire are heroes or deities in their _own right_ which creates the problem of many of them thinking they could do a better job, which is why Argenteus gets offed. >>
Not really much of an 'other' reason, IMO, but, yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Note that I'm not disputing that this is interesting, merely saying that it isn't (to me) *as* interesting as I had previously thought it to be.
<< >Clearly this is not a dull and uninteresting set-up, but is it as much
>fun as the Previous Version (for lack of a better name)?
There is no previous version. >>
Perhaps I should have tried harder to think of a better name ;-). I'm not saying that the PV was in any way official, and I don't deny for a moment that if Greg wants to have a singular Emperor, that's absolutely his prerogative. As I said later in my post, just because its more interesting doesn't make it true. Well, it may IMG, but different people find different things interesting, so it wouldn't necessarily be much of a guideline for canonical Glorantha. Sometimes good idea will get ditched; it's a pity, but unavoidable.
<< I commented on this to Greg and he asked me pointedly, did he at any stage in ANY of his writings on the Emperor, show him as having a life before the return of a new mask?>>
Not AFAIK.
<< All other views on it were speculation by fans. >>
Jolly good speculation, but, yes, I'm not denying that that's all it is for a moment.
<< Roan-Ur and his supporters would, I suspect, have been one of these
>rebel groups you're describing, attempting to put, as it were, a Black
Emperor on
>the throne to replace the Red one. Other characters would have been
>attempting to gain influence over the newly revealed Moonson, as well as to
>put down this rebellion and ensure the real guy got onto the throne.
Yes,, but the newly revealed Emperor is not necessarily the real Emperor. >>
But according to you (I think) its obvious to those with real power which one is which. The plebs wouldn't know, but that's not what I'm getting at.
<< There could be a dozen people claiming this>>
And the argument 'but hang on, mate, I know you and you've had a previous life, so you can't possibly be the Red Emperor' wouldn't hold any sway? If not, why not?
<< Plus there could be significant heroquests to find him and his soul parts
as well as
eradicating proxies. In a sense the Emperors discovery would be like a
whodunit.>>
Again: I didn't say it wouldn't be a source for interesting scenarios.
<< > But, at the same time, the overwhelming majority of characters would
>have sided with the real guy,
Once they knew who he was and agreed that he was the real deal. Not at all clear cut.>>
From what you've said so far, I can't see how this could possibly be the case. Yes, there might be confusion until he turns up and reveals himself, but until he does how could anybody else pull off the masquerade? Seize the throne yes, but pretend to be the real, singular Red Emperor? How would you do it?
I'm obviously missing something here...
<< >there'd likely have been more a sense of inevitability as to who would
eventually >win and there would have been a lot less setting up of factions
and independent >action by relatively lowly characters (unless you can
really
discredit or remove
I disagree. I was at the first Moonson LARP and it wasn't at all known to me that that the Emperor was chosen in the LARP via the method which he was eventually enthroned. >>
Well, no, but you would have done had it been done canonically (or at least your character plausibly ought to have done).
<< >This isn't to say that the writers couldn't have come up with something else, other >than the succession contests, to make a fun conclusion to the game out of, but it >does, IMO, represent a less interesting situation than the Previous Version.
I disagree. I think it would be different but no less interesting. >>
Yup, that's the core of our disagreement at the moment. Rather subjective though, so, unless you can persuade me I've completely misunderstood what you're saying (always possible), its a matter of taste and consequently kind of hard to argue...
<< When the Emperor dies, he might well take _weeks_ or even _seasons_ to reappear. [snip good plot ideas] Less interesting? Personally I'd find this stuff just as interesting as anything in the LARP, if not more so and more epic in scope. >>
I don't see how the PV would prevent this either, though...
Nick:
<< But I would still prefer *not* to have to ignore and belittle the "official version", which is why I would still like Martin to reconsider his irritating extremist position.>>
While I'd agree, I get the impression that its Greg that would have to reconsider...
<<PS: perhaps Trotsky should be told -- arguing from "Life of Moonson" may be counterproductive>>
Evidently so. I trust its clear that I was using it as an illustration rather than as a source of Gloranthan Truth.
Forward the glorious Red Army!
Trotsky
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