> [Paragraph 1]
Correct re: tests (inc. "others?")
> [Paragraph 2]
Correct re: change in modern times (though that the variance in Moonson's Masks nowadays is "independent of the Egi" is not proven, IMO).
> [Paragraph 3]
Correct, and now even agreed by Martin. Apologies for any confusion I created by using the word "tests" inappropriately in "Interregnum".
> By the way, Takenegi implies that the egi took something...
Good joke. Ho ho. (He said).
> We know that the Lunars and the Egi in particular are able to take
> normal people and infuse them with the stuff of magic and chaos and
> somehow transform them into demigods and gods and the like. They
> did it with the first Takenegi. Could the process of creating the
> new Moonson have something to do with that ability?
Absolutely it could. Though when writing from a Lunar POV I'd tend to avoid mentioning their use of "chaos" in big imperial rituals like this. (It's important to remember that it's there and that they do make use of it, but at these high-up circles of power it'd be like me worrying about whether the electricity powering my computer is nuclear-generated or not).
> Moonson/Takenegi does not always appear at the center of a
> ritual summoning circle as directed by heroes, demigods,
> deities, the egi and friends. He appears in the Lunar Empire,
> so far, but that's about the only requirement.
"Does not always..." I agree. My assumption is that he *usually* does, and in situations where he appears not to have done, the ritual may nevertheless have been carried out in secret. It's certainly true that he isn't summoned back by the Egi directly to the Moon -- rather, it appears he manifests (or his bodies receive the mandate) (or his loyal hero-formers pop out of the hero plane) somewhere in the Empire -- often in a remote backwater -- and makes his way to the Capital, and thence to the Moon, to take part in the Ritual of the Egi.
Incidentally, nowadays I could make a good case for having him reappear at the new arsehole of the Empire -- Pavis, in the Prax Military District. (Or, if he's really unlucky, Corflu). Plenty of obvious uses for established Gloranthan campaigns, I hope!
> There's no need to assume that the Egi or anyone else have
> infallible control over how and where and when he manifests.
Absolutely not. There is good reason to assume they don't. ("If I could choose where my Emperor would manifest, I wouldn't choose to have him manifest in Dullsville, Peloria...").
> Perhaps his unique self chooses a form to inhabit that best fits
> his next life. Perhaps the form he inhabits influences him. Perhaps
> the coupling works both ways. It's not something you can determine
> as an observer...
Yep, indeedy. (Parenthetically, where multiple potential "forms" are in conflict, as in LoM or the RMM model, the one that wins is clearly the most suitable form for his next life. Think of it as evolution in action...)
> In fact, the fact that Moonson sometimes chooses to destroy his
> current Mask and take a new one implies that the Mask is important,
> and that the Mask influences Moonson's unique self. He can't simply
> reform it into a new Mask, but needs to scatter the old one and go
> through hell, literally, to manifest into the new one.
Yes. This is one of the arguments I have against the greggly notion that Moonson can change his form with the greatest of ease. Though we are, of course, talking about a rather more significant change than that when making the transition between Masks.
> There is no reason to suppose that Takenegi/Moonson might not
> manifest as a shoe salesman named Albundi...
Maybe. Could happen. Though NIMG.
> Did Moonson manifest a brand new Albundi body and personality,
> or did he inhabit a pre-existing Albundi body and personality,
> that appears to be the crux of the argument between Martin and
> everybody else.
My "spin" is that I think it takes lots of mortal input -- heroquests, rituals, and the like -- to fully reintegrate Moonson. I am unhappy with the *bing* model of imperial reincarnation: I want my high-up Lunar heroquesters to be *busy* during the interregnum. Given this, although you paint an attractive picture, I don't want Takenegi/ Moonson to fully manifest, all by himself, whether as Albundi or as somebody more plausible altogether.
No reason why Takenegi's Seventh Soul shouldn't sod off to wherever it wants to -- even to inhabit Albundi, if necessary -- but I'd still say that ain't Moonson. It's Albundi + Takenegi's soul. Mind you, for as long as Albundi has Takenegi's soul, nobody *else* gets to be Moonson.
> The possibilities are endless, and do not require any restriction
> whatsoever of Takenegi/Moonson's unique self-ness or his freedom
> of action.
Yep. Though I note that previous Masks have all been grown human males, and have all reigned as Red Emperor.
> Moonson is reborn as Takenegi when his mortal vessel is chosen and
> taken. The mortal so chosen remains, but is a much smaller
> personality than Moonson, so seems to have a minor effect on the
> composite self that is the new emperor.
Yep. With the RMM model there is an interesting pause between the choosing of suitable vessel(s) and the taking of just one vessel. But apart from that, I broadly agree with your discussion.
Cheers, Nick
End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #623
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