Davids post

From: Svechin_at_cs.com
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 16:39:03 EDT


>Martin, I still feel that your attempt to understand all the politics of
>the Empire through a purely military metaphor kind of misses the point.

I am not viewing it through a military metaphor, I am viewing it from a strategic perspective. Strategy is not purely military but is the goals of a group, state or nation. War is a tool of policy. Policy is the efforts one makes towards the strategic goals of the state, group etc. Strategy is the skill of policy, whether that be war or other forms of conflict such as blockades, embargoes, propaganda etc.

>War may be politics by other means - but that doesn't mean politics is
simply a
>low-intensity war.

Politics is conflict. War is conflict with violence. Politics without violence cannot be war, by definition. Low intensity war is defined as war without total commitment. Neither side commits full power to the struggle (usually, though it is possible for one side to be at a total war footing while the other is not - USA vs Vietnam, Empire vs Sartar frex). DC that involve violence are definately low intensity wars.

>Dart Competitions aren't just commando types (though
>there are plenty of that kind), but rituals and all sorts of magic.

Agreed

>Probably lots of stuff that just isn't meaningful outside of a high Lunar
>social context.

Also agreed. But DC are not just Lunar, they are also DH, Carmanian, Pelandan etc too. The contests are between nobles of all houses, Carmanian, Rinliddi etc. The are an imperial concept, rather than just a pure Lunar one.

> If I am a noble without the means to build a strong DC
>force, but I had a large army at my disposal, I would use that army to occupy
>your territory, reducing your support, taking your revenues and killing your
>folowers.

> The use of Dart Competitors rather than armies for the battles
>between houses is not simply a matter of opportunity. When the Emperor is
>alive, using a private army in any serious way against your enemies gets
>demons called down on you.

Exactly. There is no opportunity to exercise operational force without being assailed by vastly superior operational and tactical forces from the Emperor.

>A private army is thus discouraged - its useless
>for competing with your enemies in other clans, except during an
>interregnum, while channeling your resources .

It is useful for holding territory, enforcing your rule, fighting mobs, stopping bandits, raids and for prestige. Many nobles in the Empire maintain house troops to guard their warehouses, caravans, fields, palaces. To parade, impress, to maintain a cadre of troops "just in case" and for all the other reasons forces are maintained while there is no open war.

>DCs are an Imperial policy to channel the aggression between noble houses
into >directions other than warfare.

I know what you are saying and I agree. Perhaps we disagree on the defition of'"warfare" we are using. Any conflict with the use of violence is warfare in the classical Clausewitizian definition. That is the one I am using.

>The reason, David, why armies do not wander the Heartlands is simple, there
>is no military requirement to do so, in fact there is a cost to such displays
>of operational power.

> No, its an Imperial policy to discourage those armies specifically.

Right and the deployment of operational forces doesn't happen because it is crapped on by the Emperor. Hence, the deployment of operational forces, whose prime goal is to win the campaign is rendered moot by the superior force applicable from the Imperial forces under the Emperor. Therefore, as I said, there is no military requirement to deploy said armies as they would lead to immediate defeat, thus rendering their purpose irrelevant and counterproductive to the strategic goals of the people who raised the army..

>The noble houses who compete in the Dart Competitions are not nations who
>compete using what resources they have as they can, but part of a complex
>society who compete within a relatively rigid set of rule.

Which is the same situation any state faces when comapred to other nations. There are always rules.

A Satrap of Darjiin has 900,000 people under his control. This is five times the population of Sartar. He has huge resources from a land far richer than Sartar per head. His sub nobles might well include Dukes with lands of over 100000 people or cities the size of Boldhome. These people have resources.of a very high scale. They use DC because this is a level of warfare they are allowed, they operate under Rules of Engagement (ROEs) set by the Emperor. They know the line and they don't cross it or they are stomped (if caught, but an army is kinda hard to hide (RE: Is that an army you have there. Noble: No! Army? Me? Never! RE: Then why do I see 10000 armed and armoured troops with your banner over there? Noble: D'oh!))

The level of DC varies hugely IMO. I think a lowly lord might have a dozen men of that type while the Satrap will have several hundred and can call on more resources than that.

>Should that situation change, then the use of armies will be as Lunar as DH.

> As Dart Competitions appear to be a consistent Imperial policy, if
>the Dart Competition policy changes its probably because the Red Emperor
>isn't around to enforce it...

Yes, to enforce the limits to warfare. Agreed. As I said, the use of dislocative strategies will become more prevlalent to gain advantage over others strengths once the Emp is gone. This will lead to escalation and operational action.

Martin Laurie


End of The Glorantha Digest V7 #634


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