> >> > Do western people call themselves "sorcerous"?
>
> >> No. They consider themselves Malkioni first and foremost.
>
> > I believe that there is no such distinction in the Genertelan West.
>
> [reply] Contrarily, I think there is a clear differentiation. At the
> least (i.e. in the most cosmopolitan cities) the distinction would
> parallel that which I wound find living in a small rural Minnesota
> community, were I to declare openly "I AM AN ATHIEST."
> Everyone would think I was wierd,
Hey ; maybe you *are* weird ... ;-)
Seriously, I'm not saying that there's *no* distinction between deist malkionism and atheist malkionism ; indeed, there are many differences ; but the thread was about the word 'sorcery' ; and I do not believe that malkioni 'sorcery', despite differences of dogma and praxis, has several sources but a single source (this is not a pun BTW) ; whatever they call it, and whatever myths they tell to explain it away.
> I'd say there's some room for antagonism...
I'd say so too ...
> [reply] I guess I'd mostly agree with both Peter & Julian here;
Xavier & Julian, in this case ...
> I think 'sorcery' (with a small 's') would be viewed as Malkioni as a
> word like 'logic' - it's a tool for dealing with the world.
Certainly !!
> Sorcery (with a capital 'S') would NOT be used by a Malkioni to
> reference herself or himself or what they use, because it implies
> a lot more baggage.
Actually, if by Sorcery with a capital 'S' you mean the atheistic variety, it probably carries a lot *less* baggage than the other kind. Contrariwise, yes.
Some forms of atheist sorcery (Alchemy, for example, or Necromancy) might be just as complicated as monotheism.
> _____________________________________
> > >I really think there is something awkward in this and I'm not sure I
> > >phrase my question very well. it's just that "sorcerous" society
> > >sounds splitted in two : the "monotheists" malkioni and the
> > >"sorcerous" zzaburites.
> > It is.
>
> I disagree. The split is into a far greater number of societies than
> two ...
> As you pointed out later, Peter, the Brithini are a kind of Malkioni.
> The Sorcery Plane has been poorly explained in HW:RiG ...
>
> [reply] Splitting hairs, essentially.
Aghk ! He noticed !!
Well, no not really ...
My bluntly presented point was that there are more than two approaches to sorcery ; that it is an over-simplification to reduce it to the simple duality of zzaburi & malkioni.
> The society started as the Brithini, which suffered a major schism
> when their founder (Malkion) changed his mind and left with a
> goodly chunk of residents.
That's right ...
> [Interesting question for anyone: what was the % of the extant
> inhabitants of Logic that left? I'd take a wild guess at more than
> half but I don't know at all...].
AFAIK, a tiny minority : the reason that Malkion changed his mind was that Chaos had appeared and was killing everyone off - the Brithini began to age, and die of old age... Only a very small number of them survived this, either by following Malkion or by strictly adhering to his Ancient Laws, and both groups called themselves Malkioni ; some of these Brithini survivors may be still alive in the 17th century, although they may all have disappeared with Old Brithos instead ...
> However, the Brithini are in utterly no sense a 'kind of Malkioni'
> (except in the most circuitous logic -
I don't think that the logic is that circuitous - the RW analogy is to the religions of the Book, obviously. But the Malkioni are 'Malkioni' ; whereas the various religionaries of the Book are not called 'Mosesites'.
Anyway, it is a matter of Gloranthan fact that the Brithini *are* Malkioni.
Unless Greg's changed his mind ...
> > I believe that the 'Malkioni' can be loosely defined as those who
> > believe that the source of Magic resides in the Sorcery Plane,
> > according to the Ancient Laws of Malkion & Zzabur.
>
> [reply] I don't agree. Malkioni are those who follow the word of
> Malkion.
> End of definition.
Well, I was saying the same thing myself really, albeit circuitously ...
cheers,
Julian Lord
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