>Me>> Priests, Shamans and Mystics are identified as
> >> being an inferior type of magician, not as users of sorcery.
> > an inferior type of sorceror IMO
Sorcery has a specific meaning in Malkioni society and it is distinguished from other types of magic such as veneration in the Malkioni religion (p49-50 of the Glorantha Intro).
Therefore the Malkioni would not describe the pagan magician as being sorcerers for they use non-sorcerous methods (namely sacrifice and worship).
> > Mainstream Malkioni are not dominated by sorcerers but by
> > Wizards.
>IMO, Malkioni Wizards use 'sorcery'. They are in fact 'sorcerors',
>and they dominate Malkioni society.
But the issue was what would the _Malkioni_ themselves say? That was what Xavier asked about on the Hero Wars list as it was a problem he had when translating "sorcerous" for the french edition.
> > No. Sorcery is only one of the magics avaliable to the
> > Malkioni. Most Malkioni use the veneration of Saints
> > and get blessings - a practice condemned by the Brithini
> > as an error. There may or may not be a third type: logic.
>I'm sorry, but you are wrong ; unfortunately, I cannot prove it.
Look at the Glorantha introduction pages 49-50 where the different types of Western Magic is described: Veneration (which uses worship), Philosophy (using Logic - although note the above caveat) and Sorcery (which uses the Will). That is the Malkioni statement of how they perceive their magics.
> > The Brithini do believe that God exists. I commend to you
> > the Brithini creation myth in ToTRM#13.
>Perhaps I've been doing too much listening to Greg ...
>His more recent descriptions of the Malkioni (notably at the last
>Convulsion, and at the GTA party at Tentacles this year) do not fully
>agree with the text in TotRM 13.
If he's saying that the Brithini are Atheist, then Atheism (as has been stated numerous times before - we ought to set it to music) also means one who does not _worship_ God. All that was meant as God with no human characteristics is something akin to Spinoza's statement of God being the sum of the physical laws of the universe, or what Stephen Hawking means when he talks about God.
>My bluntly presented point was that there are more than two
>approaches to sorcery ; that it is an over-simplification to
>reduce it to the simple duality of zzaburi & malkioni.
But nevertheless the division of Zzaburi and Malkioni exist, is mentioned in the Glorantha Introduction and the Rules and I was explaining to Xavier how the Malkioni would understand this division.
David Dunham
>JL> Is God Material in Nature ? (The God Learners believed that he
> > is, BTW)
><http://www.glorantha.com/greg/abidingBook.html> suggests otherwise:
>"his Invisibility indicates his essential transcendent character"
Although the Loskalmi condemn this understanding, Makan, as being an evil demiurge that seeks to entrap the ignorant into the world of matter so that they may never know Solace (Glorantha Intro p78). In other words, they (and the Carmanians who make similar complaints on the back page of Enclosure #1)don't think he's transcendent enough...
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