Re: Transgendered Naffness

From: Julian Lord <>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:09:48 +0200

Loren Miller :

> I also think that Nandan is a silly idea.

"Naff", Loren, "naff" ; get with the program ...

> Second, the supposed female rough equivalents, Vinga and Babeester Gor, do
> not develop male sexual organs or otherwise take the male role in fertility.
> They are perfectly capable of having children in the same way as other
> women.

Babeester Gor has sacrificed her Fertility powers and gained Death affinities ; and she is unable to have any children at all, saphically or otherwise.

IMO (but not everyone's AFAIK) Vinga can indeed have children in the usual way.

Please note that Nandan does *not* have children as women do ; rather as men would, if they could, and as Minotaurs do as well, apparently, to provide extra support for a cool idea.

Nandan is the exact opposite of Ragnaglar.

BTW ; there *must* be cults of penis-envy in Glorantha, as per someone's suggestion ; to tie in with one common RW kind of androgynes who are those women with clitorises so hyperdeveloped that they resemble penises.

As in RW, so in Glorantha (with access to male sex magic) ?

Unlike Nandan who remains a man, these would be cults of women who could grow penises and actually *become* men. (Although they'd still look like women).

Andrew Larsen :

> Perhaps Nandan doesn't just offer men access to Ernaldan magic.

He doesn't, really. The magic is Ulerian.

> Perhaps
> he is a cult through which men gain access to earth magic in general,
> including all the Earth goddess.

Ulerian magic is "Earth magic" from a historical (or rather prehistorical) POV only. She isn't an Earth goddess at all, although her cult does now belong to the Earth group. She is a Predark entity.

Uleria predates not only the division between the sexes (as Heler does, from one debatable POV), but she also predates every other dichotomy (and all other foundations of basic cosmic alterity, such as the Elements) of Glorantha, although she is one of those who engendered them.

She IS Cosmic Love ; because she provides the transcendental joy of REUNION. Within Uleria ; or within the Heart of Uleria at least ; dichotomies cease to be meaningful, and the deepest creative forces of Glorantha (which are "sexual" forces from a limited, human POV) are accessible to those who follow her path.

That is how Nandan can produce children IMO ; and NOT by using women's magic per se. He returns to the primal, elemental fount of sexuality itself, with the help of his lover (who provides the necessary Other in this magical equation : an Other also enters into the Heart of Nandan, via a different path), and transcends his own sexual identity ; although the Nandani is *still* a man (except perhaps in social convention). He has access to some of the deepest mysteries of female magic, but not the shallower ones : because males have the _same_ deepest mysteries, albeit in the other half of the Ulerian dichotomy (created by Her, although she precedes and transcends it), of sexual generation as females, but not the same shallow ones.

All eminently debatable, of course ...

> As a youth, he is the boon companion of
> Vinga. As an adult, he is the servant of Ernalda. As an old man, he is the
> husband of Asrelia (like the old couple who constantly argue with each
> other).

I don't think so.

Even so ; Voria, NOT Vinga.

NOT 'boon companion' but 'childhood playmate'.

Barntar would be much like this if he weren't married to Mahome.

But it's a good idea basically (but not as applied to Nandan), and there must be minor gods who are like that ; having inherited old myths of Grandfather Mortal. (or whatever the Orlanthi call the "Old Man")

Julian Lord

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