More reality

From: Mikko Rintasaari <>
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:00:23 +0300

:> Glorantha is a magical world, where raw willpower and observer effect
:> shape reality much more readily than in our own Terra.
:That's a very odd statement for someone who believes in an 'objective
:Glorantha' to make. That sounds more like the sort of straw man
:people who want to rubbish anything smacking of a multiplicity
:of truths say...

It's a bit out of context there. Mostly I meant that the metaphysics of Glorantha are even more interesting than in our universe.

:> Moral value of pretty much averything is cultural and subjective.
:OK, we agree on that much, at least. But I presume you want to have
:a "true nature of chaos", just as you do a "true nature of the sun",
:etc. And I do mean et cetera: you could replicate this endlessly, for
:each and every phenomenon in Glorantha that people have different
:accounts for: i.e., all of them, pretty much.

I do like to know what chaos is, yes, and where it comes from, what causes it and so forth. I don't like the view that it's all cultural, and if the Orlanthi (Praxians, etc.) just stopped believing in it, the broos and such would cease to exist.

I like to know as much as I can of chaos. It's one of the major primal energies and components of Glorantha, and very important for the GM to understand.


Alex on my musings on the nature of the Sun:
:I say this not to attack your proposed solution (which may well be
:the best of a bad lot), but to point out the difficulty, the
:lack of utility, and the problematic nature of _any_ solution
:of that form

But I'm sure I don't have to point out the problems that arise from the subjectivist, ignore-the-problem, approach.

:> Personally I think it would make for better
:> gamemastering and lessen the number of gray hairs I get thinking of the
:> prezel that is the Sun of Glorantha.
:I don't see why. I'm playing an Elmali, or a sorceror, or a mystic
:who knows that the sun is just a series of provisional manifestations
:of a higher reality; you're the GM, clutching a copy of Glorantha:
:the Ultimate Reality (see earlier post for product code), which tells
:you that my character's beliefs are at best inferior to those of a
:Yelm worshipper, and at worst complete nonsense. How has this made
:either of our gaming lives any easier, richer, or in any way better?

I don't think the theist's understanding of the world is necessarily any better than the animists, or vice versa. The core reality of Glorantha is something none of the characters could comprehend, or at least make any use of.

All three characters above have approaches to Gloranthan reality that let them get on with their lives, and comprehend at least one aspect of the cosmos, so that it won't drive them into despair, or madness.

Infact it greatly pisses me off that most of the Glorantha authors seem to have the view that the Malkioni are gaining ground from the Orlanthi and pretty much everybody else. I see no reason for this to happen, but apparently the authors think that the Malkioni culture (oppressive and hierarchial) always wins out over the orlanthi one. I just don't see the orlanthi wanting to give up their freedom and their gods and becoming westeners.

:If what you're advocating is in effect, "iron out the bumps to
:make things more consistent", arguably it's easier in some sense,
:but certainly its a whole lot less interesting as a game-world.

There is a patter to Glorantha already. One can try to dig out the model of reality with the most coherense and least contradictions. It's a shitload of work though, and I wish Greg wouldn't make it his lifes work to make us stumble in the dark.

        -Adept : a bit too tired to be philosophical

I think I think... Therefore I think I am.

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