Re: The Glorantha Digest V8 #153

From: Thomas McVey <tmcvey_at_sric.sri.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:44:31 -0800


> Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:34:24 +0200
> From: Mikko Rintasaari <rintasaa_at_mail.student.oulu.fi>
> Subject: gauls
>
> Me:
> > Discipline (greek style) is just one way to win. The orlanthi passion
> > and fierceness makes them daunting opponenets.
>
> :Didn't work for the Gauls or Germans facing the Romans. Sorry.
> :
> :Tom
>
> Oh yeah? The Celts did infact smash rome's armies,

Yup, at the Battle of Allia. The Romans considered the date of the battle (July 18th) unlucky therafter.

I'm not suggesting that the Romans did not suffer defeats. Even Julius Caesar had to high-tail it out of Britain in his expeditions there.But they were more effective in battle than their barbarian foes.

> and besiege the city of
> Rome for a couple of weeks, until bought off by huge amounts of gold.

And the plague that had broken out amongst the besiegers, 'cos the Celts had failed to bury their dead. Not the best at hygiene, those hairy barbarians.

Some interesting stories about that sacking though:

         "By the time the Celts arrived, Rome had been deserted, with the exception of

         several elderly particians. These old patricians were sitting in a courtyard, believing that if they were to

         sacrifice their lives for Rome in its most dire hour of need, Rome's enemies would then be thrown into

         panic and confusion, and Rome thereby saved. This nearly worked, as the Celts were indeed spooked

         by the sight of the completey vacant and defensless city, as well as the stately old men sitting silently in

         the courtyard, stoically awaiting their deaths. A Celtic warrior reached up to tug on the beard of one of

         the old men, and the old man promptly knocked him on his noggin with a staff. This apparently broke

         the spell of quietitude, and the Celts then killed the old men, looted Rome and headed for Capiol City

         (Capitoline), where a great many of the Romans had holed up."

http://www.clannada.org/docs/sackrome.htm

Sound like the old guys just failed their mystic counter. :)

But we're talking about 390 BC? Rather a long time before Rome was the dominant power in Italy. And it was that defeat that catalysed the military reforms that made them so formidable. In 225 BC, 8,000 legionaires held off a combined Celtic force of 50,000 infantry and 20,000 cavalry & chariots. The Celtic force was later smashed by other Roman Army.

>
> Too bad the victorious Celts didn't just end the whole nasty bureaucratic
> hellhole called Rome then and there.

Sheesh. And lose Ovid and Catullus? No way.

(Cue the "what have the Romans done for us" skit)

There's a temptation to idealise the Ancient Celts as anarchic egalitarians, particularly as there are large gaps in our knowledge of them. Beresford Ellis does this idealisation, as do other writers (often from a Irish nationalist point of view, like Ellis). But from what's survived of Brehon law we know that some of the Celts had 12-odd distinct castes by birth. You don't need bureaucracy or police or tax collectors to have a repressive society.

Tom


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