Bronze age silliness.

From: Peter Metcalfe <>
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:47:46 +1300


> > Not in the bronze age, they didn't. All the things mentioned above
> > (and rockets in particular) are after the start of the Chinese Iron
> > Age.

>Nope. They did indeed have these things in the warring states period,
>which is definitely bronze age.

No, it is not, Mikko. Warring States (1000 BC - 221 BC) marks the introduction of iron in China. Chinese first worked meteoric iron around 1200 BC. They then developed cast iron in 600 BC - 500 BC (Wrought Iron not appearing until the Han Dynasty 206 BC - 220 AD).

Crossbows are found around 400 BC. Rockets are first recorded about 1232 AD when the Chinese used them to repel Mongols from Kai-feng Fu.

> > So can we dispense with the "that didn't occur in the bronze
> > age, so it shouldn't happen in glorantha" attitude?

>Ahem. So you say that 1600 era japaniese is a sensible mix with
>the Celts?

No. It's been pointed out that the Katana was around since the 8th century AD. This debate started when you criticized someone for implying that the Kralori had Katanas on the grounds that Chinese bronze-age swords were straight (never mind the fact that Kralori scimitars and naginatas are canonical).

I am pointing that:

Hence it's little good saying that something is late medieval and shouldn't belong in glorantha, when such anachronisms already exist and, more importantly, are _fun_. If I was to adopt your archaeological correctness, then I would have to junk the dwarvern muskets, the Kingdom of War engine, the Fonritan yachts, the Loskalmi knights, the Kralori rockets, the Quinpolic cogs, the Rathori longbows and a host of other things. Then I would have to ask myself whether it was glorantha or alternate earth that I was really playing in.

>What I mostly meant, is that you can't really have advanced "middle
>age" cultures brushing shoulders with bronze age or early iron age

Like the Malkioni and Orlanthi?

>The more advanced people would conquer the lesser without effort.

No, they wouldn't. The Boers took nine wars and a hundred years to subdue the Xhosa (iron-age cattle farmers), and then their victory was largely achieved when the Xhosa slew all their cattle in an attempt to make the Boers go away by magical means. Cortes won Mexico by allying himself with local indian civilizations hostile to the Mexica and without them, he couldn't have done what he did (smallpox also played no small part in his victory). Pizarro conquered the Incas by merely capturing the Inca rather than by having to fight the Incas armies. And so on and so on.

In glorantha, technological differences are further reduced by the existence of _magic_. Given that neolithic savages can now call up spirits such as Lightning Boy or Oakfed, all the technological advancement in the world will not make much of a difference unless you can call upon magic of your own. Otherwise the dwarves would have conquered the surface world by now...

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