On Pentan freedom and discipline:
Peter Metcalfe:
> I think the Pentans value their ability to roam, wander or
> to move as they please (c.f. their god is also known as
> the Wandering Sun), which doesn't imply a conflict with their
> strong social discipline as calling them freedom-lovers does.
So here's how i understand it (probably the same in a more complicated form:)
Freedom is part of their way of life probably as a whole tribe, moving as they please, but not as an individual inside the tribe, because the Pentans stick to a strong discipline: in war, politics and probably work division. In the tent ("yourte" is not in my dictionary), each family member sits in their defined place. In the steppe, if your tribe want to change their old winter pasture for a better place, they just have to kick out the other tribe from there (and take a few slaves in the process).
As for religion, each Pentan seem free to worship whatever spirits or demons be convenient under the Wandering Sun, so it's a peculiar case.
Daniel Fahey:
> Well, yes, it is good to have discipline for battle, but many people didn't
> have it. One reason why Lakota (Sioux) often didn't do as well in fights as
> they could have is that the young men tended to seek personal glory, instead
> of obeying a battle-plan. So obedience is good, but often just isn't there,
> but the people fight anyway.
Yet, the Asian steppe nomads were brought up with discipline in battle. Individual feats of bravery could be valued in Praxian society frx, but i think they wouldn't be encouraged for young Pentans. The riders do not fight in melee so i suppose they have time to mature before becoming warriors. Besides i guess their education is quite strict. Considering Glorantha Intro, proofs of individual strength could be shown in single combat duels for Warriors, or hunting prowess for Riders.
On Pentans having fun all the time:
Daniel Fahey
> This is often mostly work. There isn't much time for just sitting on your
> horse. A group has to get to the next pasture at the right time, and in many
> societies has to leave at the right time before the next group comes. In
> between there is alot of work. Most nomads are not known as softies, but
> rather as tough, living in a way which most of us wouldn't last long at.
I've been unclear. I agree they have a harsh life and shouldn't have mentioned their opportunities for fun without mentioning this. They've been living in extreme poverty since the Nights of Horror. Children too weak for enduring cold, hunger and effort died. The Pentans are tough 5w and frugal 5w. Worst of all, the Traditionalists who raise only horses are really poor. Recent raids on the Redlands revigorated them somewhat.
Wondering about their work. I think at least it's well divided among the members of the tribe: women, children, young men and slaves do most of it :). Women pack and unpack tents between two pastures, cook, do leatherwork and other women's craft, bring up children, attend colt births and look after sick or wounded horses. I don't know if the Moderns shave their sheep. Probably Riders break their own horses at their coming of age. They do most of the scouting, hunting and boring watch and herding. Warriors certainly help them, or do some men's craft, like weaponsmithing. I don't know what Leaders could do, except Leading (and perhaps goldsmithing though i wonder where they find their gold).
Peter Metcalfe
> IMO these opportunities for fun usually occur under strict
> conditions (like having ensured that there's nobody else for
> miles around before getting smashed on kumis). While these
> occasions are useful in providing relief, IMO they have less
> opportunities to enjoy them than a peasant might.
What i meant is that after a boring day, they like to enjoy themselves. I suppose one don't encounter trolls or enemy tribes everyday in Pent. Pent is huge. Of course the tribesmen have to be watchful, but yet a tribe can roam for weeks without seeing anybody. So getting smashed on kumis isn't that unfrequent, when the day is over and the Sun sets. Sure it shortens Pentan life expectancy. A troll ambush is less treacherous than kumis.
Lingering over this, there are much official opportunities too: religious ceremonies are great for having fun: marriages, ritual horse slaughtering, children becoming riders becoming warriors/mothers becoming leaders/teachers... Even funereals ceremonies* could be occasions for feasts. * How do Pentans dispose of their dead? Cremate them or let them dessicate in the sun?
Jerome
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