Weapons Use

From: Dom Twist <thazar_at_globalnet.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:44:09 -0000


Mike Dawson>
>I repeat. Unless several people who aren't us ask us to continue this
discussion ON list, I'll only respond to replies on this part of the discussion OFF list by >private email. I'm sure the non-combative find this tiresome.

Well several people have...however I will take quite a few points to private e-mail...however I think there are a few that need to stay on....

Me;-
>> Belive me if you charge in on a spear equiped Shield Wall armed with
Sword
>> and Shield your a dead man......

MD
>we're going to charge at a full run in a deep column

A tactic than CAN work reasonably well, a better version (against DarkAge style Walls..columbs again became more effective again later on, although the Highland/Bayonet charge finaly did them in during the Napolionic era)is to Charge in Wedge, or Boar Snout. I've used this against Shield Walls and had it work out brilliantly, however I'd MUCH rather try it against Sword and Shield equiped Wall than Spear and Shield. As you pointed out things can get into a rugby scrum if neither unit actualy breaks...if that happens Sword and Shield are at a HUGE disadvantage because it takes a heck of a lot more room to swing a sword than it does to Stab with a Spear. Of course if the Wall breaks the Spear Guys are dead meat.....Sword and Shield are much much more effective in the loose. Of course the Great Shield Wall users of Northern Europe didnt tend to use stabbing swords...I'm sure the Roman Galadius would have done well.....but the Spear does give more reach.

    I've also had a charging coloumb BOUNCE of my shield wall, and seen them 'tripped up' by enemy skirmishers diving on the feet of the on-coming men. Belive me there are few things more terrifying to a Norman Boar Snout than a Naked Celt charging towards them and launching themselves at the front rank(Ok semi-naked, we run a familly show) or painfull when it happens to your own unit.

    All these things are typical Orlanthi stuff......and part of what would happen after they have adjusted to the Lunar mode of Combat. With the Fyrd braced to receive the advancing Phalanx (which is going to be looking forward to using it's pole arms/2H spear against 1hSpear and Shield!!) the heroic use of Movement and Air abilitys to Break those formations and let the 'real warriors' get in amongst them with Sword and Axe is what the Sword Thanes will be dreaming about

>Regarding charging leveled spears, yes, we do that. SCA fighting is NOT
recreation, it is competitive. Spears are NOT live steel. They are padded. We swing or >stab with force, and aim at our opponents. Weapons are typically made of 1 1/4+ inch rattan. (This is what I meant by "Full Contact" Trollball.) For safety and >control reasons, SCA spears are limited to 9 feet max, at least around here.

And here is the root of the problem. As I said earlier we arnt allowed to kill each other. European Re-enactment uses Steel Weapons rather than Rattan (you could sharpen my Viking sword, stick it in the ground and confuse hell out of someone when they carbon dated the steel) but of course Combat although normally very competitive is more like a Martial Arts bout where blows are Pulled so as not to cause serious harm....bruises are the rule, different shaped but simmilar to those you get in Martial Arts bouts. Full Contact with live steel is Unusal but does happen in Highly Controled Tourneys. Both SCA and Re-enactment have their uses in understanding Real World and Gloranthan combat but they are limited. For Example both MD and myself are season Warriors by our lights....we've seen hundreds of Battles and thousands of Skirmishes. But when it comes down to it we are 21st Century Soft Westerners who a)dont really do this for a Living and b)Get to learn from our failures. Mike how many fights in your first year would have left you DEAD? Lots in mine...of course Gloranthans have healing magic, great in inter clan and tribal warfare but often not much use to the severly wounded if the Victor holds the field and you were on the wrong side.....

    As a weapon of Warfare massed ranks of Shield and Spear are pretty effective, great from a commanders point of view:- They're of course cheap, easy to train and effective against a variety of oponents. The Phalanx formation is going to be a problem but they take huge amounts of training to mount and so are likely to be realitively scarce. Your real 'Killing' units are your elites, Cavalry and Heavy Foot Soldiers equiped with Sword, Axe and Shield and wearing good armour (Chainmail etc) not to mention any Flying Orlanthi 'Stukas'. Given the mobility qualitys of Orlanthi troops the answer to the Phalanx is to MOVE!! Scottish 'shieltrums' or Irish 'hedgehogs' were designed to this and were surprisingly mobile.....imagine a oval shieldwall that could RUN in any direction. Surprised hell out of English armoured Cavalry. later on they droped the shield and went to long Spears only...lacking the Hopolite shield use however it becomes vunerable to archers.

DomT


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