From: Olli Kantola <nysalor_at_lyyra.kempele.fi>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 00:33:40 +0200

Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:52:43 +1300 Peter Metcalfe wrote on the HeroWars mailing list:

>How many of the other gods in the creation myth are worshipped by
>the Heortlings? Uleria's just as important to them as Kronos
>is to the Greeks.

Uleria is the exception that proves the rule.

>>I am not claiming that she is a major player in Orlanthi myths(though
>>shecan been seen as such since she is love), but how many of the
>>gods/goddesses from the extra 15% are brought up more than once or twice in

>Like Humakt (six times), Chalana Arroy (seven times), Issaries
>(three times), Urox (three times), Heler (twice) and Lhankor Mhy
>(thrice)? Unlike Uleria, they appear in myths as actors of
>deeds done and examples to be followed.

Ahaa! These are major players in Heortling mythology. IMO Uleria is in the same level of relevance as Heler (if not greater, since Heler was just really the price of one quest, while Uleria co-created the world).

>>it is an Orlanthi belief, did you not? So I will restate my question. Why
>>would other Orlanthi identify her with love and Heortling with lust and
>_Some_ Orlanthi identify her with love. The Heortlings do not.
>AFAIK those Orlanthi that do identify her with love are thoseaffected by
>civilization (whether it be the Lunars or the Holy Country) or city-dwellers or

Aren't the Sartarites originally from Tarsh and Holy Coutry? So essentially what you are saying is that after the pioneers moved to Sartar (HEORTLING pioneers), they got rural and started equating Uleria with lust. Then Sartar came from Heortland and made the cities and a couple of hundred years went by and the city dwellers and the rural folks didn't share their ideas about Uleria. Remember that Heortland has quite many cities.

>>(There is no crime in living together with an unmarried men or flirting with
>>"singles". Friends can sleep around with each other as long as no-one is
>>married, etc.
>None of this requires prostitution or Ulerian worship.

No. It doesn't. So why would their be treated different?

>Before the resident anthropowanker butts in, you've conflatedlove and
>marriage. Marriage is a social convention that constricts certain types of
>relationships. This is alien to Uleria's nature as she sees love as something
>that should be untrammeled and for everyone.

No. I think that divine bond between men and women as shown by Orlanth and Ernalda is within the power of Love/Fertility. You are right in that Ulerians propably don't have much respect for unhappy marriages, but rather than have sex with each unhappy party, Ulerians would propably try to bring love in to the relationship.

I don't think that Uleria is the same in Sartar as it is in Dara Happa. Orgies and such certainly aren't for Sartar and so the cults practices are different there.

>However when people talk about how the Heortlings see Uleria asa demon, they
>are talking about _rural people_. Just because the people in the cities see
>Uleria as a positive force, does not mean the Heortlings will.

<sarcasm> Ah, so when is this culture book "people in the cities" appearing? </sarcasm> Sorry about that. I don't think that the differences between city-dwellers and rural Heortlings in that great. Not as great as DH/Peloria diffence. What I do think that city-dwellers use the communal magic of Uleria (and the city god as well) to make up for the differences between rural Ernalda rites and city conditions. People near cities will propably use make use of their fertility blessings as well. It keeps the relations of citicens and rural folks healthy(soothes their anger agaist the horrid demon) and helps to sustain the city.

I think that Boldhomers see themselves as Heortlings. They are city-dwellers and have an Temple of Uleria in their fair city. I think that other cities have temples or shrines as well. It is a strange thing to say that she isn't important or meaningful to people as a quite big percentage of Sartarites are in her "zone of influence". I don't think that a demon of lust would be that important.

Cities don't exist in vacuum. They are religious centers as well as centers of commerence (not for all cults, but for specialiced cults anyway). I'm not saying that all Orlanthi concider her as the Goddess of Love, but that Orlanthi all do. In some strange backwaters there may be Orlanthi who tell stories about the horrid demon of lust that takes young men and seduces them, who by the way co-created the world. Tilntae, not succubus.

Olli Kantola
- --
It's lovely to watch colorful shadows in the planets of the eternal light.

        -The Master

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