> Aren't the Sartarites originally from Tarsh and Holy Coutry? So
> essentially what you are saying is that after the pioneers moved
> to Sartar (HEORTLING pioneers), they got rural and started equating
> Uleria with lust. Then Sartar came from Heortland and made the cities
> and a couple of hundred years went by and the city dwellers and the
> rural folks didn't share their ideas about Uleria. Remember that
> Heortland has quite many cities.
For rural pioneers, Uleria is a quite impractical deity. Her activities disrupt the well thought-out web of relationships created by Ernalda's loom.
>>Before the resident anthropowanker butts in, you've conflatedlove and >>marriage. Marriage is a social convention that constricts certain types of >>relationships. This is alien to Uleria's nature as she sees love as >>something that should be untrammeled and for everyone.
> No. I think that divine bond between men and women as shown by Orlanth and
> Ernalda is within the power of Love/Fertility. You are right in that
> Ulerians propably don't have much respect for unhappy marriages, but rather > than have sex with each unhappy party, Ulerians would propably try to
> bring love in to the relationship.
A Heortling might ask "what has love to do with marriage?" the same way he might ask "what has love to do with cattle-trading?".
There aren't many Ulerians among the Heortlings. Among the clans, there is little to keep them fed - if they don't take service with a noble, they'll most likely starve.
> I don't think that Uleria is the same in Sartar as it is in Dara Happa.
> Orgies and such certainly aren't for Sartar
Aren't for Dara Happa proper, either. Darjiin, on the other hand... but they have their heron goddess.
> and so the cults practices are different there.
IMO the Uleria cult is about as widely distributed as the Third Eye Blue guild of sorcerous smiths. No idea why either is found in a no man's land like Apple Lane...
Peter:
>>However when people talk about how the Heortlings see Uleria asa >>demon, they are talking about _rural people_. Just because the >>people in the cities see Uleria as a positive force, does not mean >>the Heortlings will.
> <sarcasm> Ah, so when is this culture book "people in the cities" appearing? </sarcasm>
Good question, actually. IMO there remains a lot to be said about city life among Heortlings. I'm afraid the culture book will have to wait a long time unless some fan group gets together to write it, but I'd sure like to see something for less rural Heortlings and cohabitants.
> Sorry about that. I don't think that the differences between
> city-dwellers and rural Heortlings in that great. Not as great
> as DH/Peloria diffence. What I do think that city-dwellers use the
> communal magic of Uleria (and the city god as well) to make up for
> the differences between rural Ernalda rites and city conditions.
What communal magic of Uleria? The only city I know about which has any form of sovereignty, government or administration derived from Uleria is Zoria (currently in northern Fronela).
Uleria doesn't support any society (beyond intercourse).
> People near cities will propably use make use of their fertility
> blessings as well. It keeps the relations of citicens and rural folks
> healthy(soothes their anger agaist the horrid demon) and helps to
> sustain the city.
Uleria's fertility blessings are easily rivaled by Earth Witch shamans, and I guess the latter are more frequent. Uleria might play a role as a camp follower of mercenary companies, where permanent pairings are unwanted, and may well thrive on garrisoned occupation troopers. The less adulterous services of the temples might serve as pleasant entertainment for roving merchants, too, but the Heortlings have their own entertainers as well. For seduction, there's Eurmal, whose blessings may be had from the local Trickster in eschange for cheap drink.
Uleria lacks a niche even in ordinary Heortling city life.
> I think that Boldhomers see themselves as Heortlings. They are
> city-dwellers and have an Temple of Uleria in their fair city.
They also have a dragon(ewt) shrine, an entire troll quarter with troll temples, an aldryami grove, and a duck pond. All very Heortling?
> I think that other cities have temples or shrines as well. It is
> a strange thing to say that she isn't important or meaningful to
> people as a quite big percentage of Sartarites are in her "zone of
> influence". I don't think that a demon of lust would be that
> important.
I suppose that Malia has more worshippers in Sartar than Uleria. Uleria propitiation might be more pleasant, but the outcome is similarly disruptive to Heortling culture.
> Cities don't exist in vacuum. They are religious centers as well as
> centers of commerence (not for all cults, but for specialiced cults
> anyway). I'm not saying that all Orlanthi concider her as the Goddess
> of Love, but that Orlanthi all do.
If you mean "love" as "lust", possibly - the Orlanthi don't seem to have a female Trickster deity beyond cross-dressing Eurmali. The Orlanthi recognize a lot of deities of some universal aspect or other - like Mistress of Light and Knowledge, Lhankor Mhy's spouse. They don't worship or propitiate most of these.
Cities will have some religious interaction with the surrounding rural people. They will have a lot of peculiar deities for their peculiar needs, too. Somehow I don't see much of a niche for widely distributed Uleria worship when other native deities like Eurmal or Drogarsi or Niskin perform.
Prostitution will most likely be an urban phenomenon. It might provide a niche for Uleria, but she won't be the only deity found in this niche.
Married Heortlings endanger their personal and family magics when hiring prostitutes for pleasure. Orlanthi "All" married men won't do that. This leaves a sufficiently large client base if there are mercenaries, caravan outfitters or similar foreigner-attracting activities. Unmarried men (juniors in Heortling society) just might be able to save the cash for such an experience, but there are Ernalda subcults where similar experiences can be had for far less donation.
Unmarried rural visitors might well produce a fair portion of the prostitutes' customer base. Soldiery, caravan personnel and other trade related business will be regulars.
> In some strange backwaters there may be Orlanthi who tell stories about
> the horrid demon of lust that takes young men and seduces them, who by
> the way co-created the world. Tilntae, not succubus.
The tale of Uleria and the Boggles says it all. Uleria may have been one of the High Gods and Goddesses (who did not create the world, by the way), but she "brought herself low". The only other High God who seems to get some worship by Heortlings is Larnste, and he was badly wounded, too.
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