From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_bigfoot.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:02:41 +1300

Olli Kantola:

>Me>AFAIK those Orlanthi that do identify her with love are those
> >affected by civilization (whether it be the Lunars or the Holy
> >Country) or city-dwellers or other.

>Aren't the Sartarites originally from Tarsh and Holy Coutry? So essentially
>what you are saying is that after the pioneers moved to Sartar (HEORTLING
>pioneers), they got rural and started equating Uleria with lust.

No, I am not. FYI the Sartarites left Heortland because the Pharaoh was starting up the Holy Country and they disagreed with it for various reasons. Likewise the Far Pointers and the Alone tribe left the Kingdom of Tarsh before it went Lunar.

>Then Sartar came from Heortland and made the cities and a couple of
>hundred years went by and the city dwellers and the rural folks didn't
>share their ideas about Uleria.

Why should they share their ideas about Uleria? Are there missionaries who go out among the clans and preach sacral prostitution?

>Remember that Heortland has quite many cities.

Not when the Sartarites left, they didn't.

>Me>[living together and flirting with singles does not require]
> >prostitution or Ulerian worship.

>No. It doesn't. So why would their be treated different?

I'm not saying it's treated any differently. But I fail to see why this means they must see Uleria as a positive force. People can do all these things without having to worship Uleria or to acknowledge her.

>No. I think that divine bond between men and women as shown by Orlanth
>and Ernalda is within the power of Love/Fertility.

This divine bond also partakes of harmony under the auspices of Vela. Guess what Uleria is tainted with? Disorder. That's why Thunder Rebels talks "the wild and breathless passion of the demon Uleria that breaks apart everyone it touches" TR p192

>I don't think that Uleria is the same in Sartar as it is in Dara Happa.
>Orgies and such certainly aren't for Sartar and so the cults practices
>are different there.

IMO Uleria's far too small to have regional cultic practices. Her worship would have been introduced into the cities along the trade-routes and her practices be the same as they are in Lunar Tarsh or the Holy Country. And this is more true now that the Lunars are ruling the cities of Sartar.

>I don't think that the differences between city-dwellers and
>rural Heortlings in that great.

A difference of opinion about Uleria is hardly a "great" difference. What's being described here is the difference in attitudes between conservative rural folk and the more tolerant city folk.

>What I do think that city-dwellers use the communal magic of Uleria
>(and the city god as well) to make up for the differences between
>rural Ernalda rites and city conditions.

Ernalda's rites work just as well in the city as in the country. The communal magic of Uleria is used for orgies (Community spell: every communication skill within the area of effect succeeds. Craft: Courtesan - a communication skill nudge nudge wink wink).

>People near cities will propably use make use of their fertility
>blessings as well.

Considering that in GoG, her fertility blessing was not much better than Eiritha's Bless Animals or the Grain Goddess' Bless Crops, I don't see this as a reason for farmers to beat a path to her temple. The might visit her for other reasons, mind you...

>I think that Boldhomers see themselves as Heortlings. They are
>city-dwellers and have an Temple of Uleria in their fair city.

They also have baby-eating trolls, chaos-worshipping lunars, and a number of other abominations there. Just because it's found in Boldhome doesn't mean the farmers see it as a Good Thing.

>It is a strange thing to say that she isn't important or meaningful
>to people as a quite big percentage of Sartarites are in her "zone
>of influence".

About 10% of all Sartarites live in the cities and going by modern examples (with a caveat of different social mores), only about 5% of those will frequently use prostitutes. Doesn't sound like a quite a big proportion to me.

>Cities don't exist in vacuum. They are religious centers as well as
>centers of commerence (not for all cults, but for specialiced cults

Heortling culture is decentralized and its religious centres are in the clan or more rarely the tribe. The Heortlings do not bow to cities because they are the font of all civilization, they look to their clan and tribe for that. Just because a cult is found in the city does not mean it is accepted by the Orlanthi in the country anymore than the fact of being able to buy drugs in the city means that all farmers approve of drug-taking.

End of The Glorantha Digest V8 #269

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