Uleria (again) from Olli Kantola on 2001-03-20 (Glorantha Digest Vol 08)

From: Olli Kantola <nysalor_at_lyyra.kempele.fi>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:44:23 +0200 (EET)

I said to myself that I will go back to this thread after I have read Thunder Rebels and now I have. It was GOOD!

Peter Metcalfe said a while ago:

>A difference of opinion about Uleria is hardly a "great"difference. What's
>being described here is the difference in attitudes between conservative
>rural folk and the more tolerant city folk.

If, as you say, rural folks truly think that Uleria is a demon (being from the underworld, enemy god or servant of the Predark?), then they would think that city folk were wicked demon worshippers. Do the clansmen stage crusades to the towns every now and then? Are the townsfolk as good as sorcerers? (Dead that is, if they come to our tula.)

What a strange Sartar this has become with strange, eccentric and dangerous people leading clans and tribes and cities populated by demon worshippers. IMHO Heortlings aren't people that are curious, uncomfortable of even frightened of large percentage of their leaders. IMO TR tried to have too much contrast, so that a part of it would make a difference.

>Ernalda's rites work just as well in the city as in the country.The
>communal magic of Uleria is used for orgies (Community spell:

That is one thing that Ulerian magic can be used to, does that exclude some other aspect of love from the powers of the Goddess of Love? She can do her thing in the cities, but she certainly has her disadvantages. (Maybe I'm gasping at feats here, but they are the guidelines for the rest of the powers that form the gods.)

Ancestors. Ancestors of citizens are often a very mixed bunch. Ancestors from different cultures, cults and nations greate a very fuzzy whole. IMO they don't have as much power as ancestors of normal clans. IMO they aren't worshipped as much either. I think that matchmaking relies partly on consulting the ancestors of two clans wether the pair is a good match. City folk have marry other city folk or rural Heortlings (IMO this is rarer. (Especially if you think that city folk are demon worshippers.)) and guesstimating the combability of the pair would be more difficult as the ancestors can't detect individuals.
Assessing Boys and Girls. Velas magic seems to require (work better on if there is a) connection to the gods of girls and boys. Voria and Voriof. This has to be it or her magic would only be useful in forming child-marriages. Somehow I don't see the small people of the cities "following" the goddess of Flowers of the Shephard, since this is the role that rural children play.

>About 10% of all Sartarites live in the cities and going bymodern
>examples (with a caveat of different social mores), only about 5% of
>those will frequently use prostitutes. Doesn't sound like a quite a big
>proportion to me.

Why this is nearly the rest (of Orlanthi all)!!! IMO those 10% are "under her influence". Have experience, have been touched or have benefitted from her rites. You still seem to equate her worshippers as mere whores... Even in RQ she had every sort of fertility magic available. You might want to check out the love/fertility question(or something) from www.glorantha.com.

>>No. I think that divine bond between men and women as shown by Orlanth
>>and Ernalda is within the power of Love/Fertility.

>This divine bond also partakes of harmony under the auspices of Vela.
>Guess what Uleria is tainted with? Disorder. That's why Thunder Rebels
>talks "the wild and breathless passion of the demon Uleria that breaks
>apart everyone it touches".

Now you are contradicting yourself. You said that Uleria tames the Boggles isn't a Heortling myth and without that myth your claims of her disorderiliness are empty. If that myth were a Heortling myth, then Ulerias Net would be the force that holds the world together. Also, I don't think that Uleria CAN be corrupted by disorder as she is nothing but, the source of and indeed Love/Fertility. Dimished. Yes. Weakened. Yes, but not corrupted. Is Larnste chaotic as he was bitten by chaos, his movement powers rend to tatters? Hmm?

As for the nature of Uleria and her priestesses, you can take another look

at the Tilntae. Essentially they are of the same as Uleria (only on a
smaller scale). They are incapable of anything that doesn't fit into the
sphere of Love. A good guideline to her priestesses would be

"(Tilntae) Seek nothing more than to increase the amount of love, thus life, in the world." The Powers that Uleria bestows upon her followers also correlate with the powers of Tilntae.

"Where a sense of community is weak they will manifest as essence to enchance it." I bet that they played a significat part in forming wyters for cities. (As they came from Heortland with the artisans&such folk.) That doesn't sound like whoring.

"If a being is lost or lonely they possess him to enable him to find love." That translates nicely into matchmaking(!) and certainly doesn't sound like demonic possesion, wracking of the body&other such nastiness.

And finally:"When a being is childless they may appear physically and bring new life to the world." Here the orgies or other ceremonies can help those who don't worship Ernalda(or even Ernaldans... Hey extra help is always appreciated). The rest, that is, whose percentage is certainly greater than 15% in the cities IMO.

It is fair to say that in Heortling society Ernalda handles all things concerned with matchmaking, community and fertility, but would it be very Heortling if this would be a Yelmic all? I say that Uleria provides these things for 5%-10% of Heortlings and that it is just as natural and acceptable as Humakti weaponthanes, Issaries merchants, Donandar skalds and Vingan women that we are all so fond of.

Olli Kantola
- --
It's lovely to watch colorful shadows in the planets of the eternal light.

-The Master