>Maybe Greymane's Orlanth did like Tada, kill the local lion spirit and take
>his skin and powers. Is it possible for a god to do that to a spirit?
It's plausible IMO. Nick has some detail about the early Hrestoli knights doing the same thing to the lions. There's also Jome Wulf's Wolfskins who did the same to the Telmori.
Joerg Baumgartner:
> > The [Basmoli] came from Pamaltela, not Seshnela.
>I'm aware of that. Note that the Pamaltelan Basmoli were last seen in
>the western Pamaltelan veldt.
That doesn't indicate anything about whether the Pendali came from Prax or vice versa. Migrational routes are often radically different from the shortest route and the simple fact that every other Pamaltelan came via the east indicates that route was the best.
>Ok, Basmol may have come via Prax and returned - but why should he?
I do not believe that Basmol left Prax for Seshnela and then returned. IMO Basmol was killed in Seshnela by Hrestol, in Prax by Tada and by other heroes in other places.
> > Oopsie. Durbaddath then as he is a theistic deity and he does
> > have a mythic history of rebellion against the Dara Happans
> > (AR p86) [...].
>Quite a fun idea. Though Durbaddath is the sun lion, and rumored to be
>related to the dog gods/spirits of Peloria.
He rebelled against the Emperor after Urvairinus. One could argue that he acquires the Sun affinity in service to the Emperor and has other affinities (Storm, Rebel, Wild) in his other roles.
>Still, I would be very surprised to find a theist wolf people in Ralios
>or near the Maboder tribal lands
The Telmori are animists (you might have meant the Wolfskins with the Maboder allusion) but I don't know of any similar traditions in Ralios (the East Wilds Orlanthi hate Telmori).
>for the same reasons I'd be surprised
>about theist lion people right next to the last Basmoli of western
>Genertela.
But Greymane's people are not "right next" to Basim as has been pointed out before.
> > There are no theistic Mraloti. They either maintain a lifestyle
> > as animistic farmers or they forget this and worship Malkion.
>Broken Council Guidebook speaks of ten tribes of Harandings and
>Drorgalarings,
Who are not Mraloti so the significance of this is?
>Shannon's History of the Kingdom of Night speaks of
>Esrolian Entruli. Maniria and Slontos are dealt with as a fairly
>homogeneously, and no mention of Mraloti Hsunchen.
Nevertheless we are told in several sources (Glorantha: Intro p150, Genertela Book p52, Players Book: Genertela p31, and Elder Secrets Book p6) about the Mraloti Hsunchen there with nary a hint about their worship of Orlanth Wenelian style.
> > There are no theistic hsunchen in East Ralios. They are either
> > animists or Orlanthi. There is no in-between position and no
> > theistic worship of the hsunchen totems.
>There are former Bemuri who now are cattle-herding Orlanthi in Keanos.
Since they do not worship Bemur theistically, they do not engage in theistic worship of the Hsunchen totem. They find it much easier to worship Uralda for cattle magics.
>They don't worship their totems in much of an animist way, but
>their totem has become subsumed in their perception of Orlanth.
I doubt it. It's far more probable that their worship of Bemur was transferred to Urox/Storm Bull rather than Orlanth.
> > It's not the switch that's being argued against, it's your
> > contention that Greymane's clan theistically worships Basmol
> > and that the Wenelians are theistic worshippers of Mralot.
>I did not content that they are theistic worshippers of their totem.
>I contend that this totem became their perception of (a subcult of)
>Orlanth, with a set of affinities duplicating the totem beast's
>abilities.
A worshipped entity is a real distinct entity in its own right and not a matter of perception. When changing pantheons, the people do not "create a perception" of their old spirits as a god for that is really beyond their powers (the God Learners only did it once IIRC).
The second point is that I do not believe the Wenelian Orlanth (What Greymane's clan does is something I'll ignore for now) is merely a boar subcult as this means that a King or a lawspeaker would not worship Orlanth the Boar, which I feel is wrong. His boarishness should have an impact far greater than the presence of any subcult.
I would handle the Wenelians by giving them a boar _aspect_ to replace Orlanth Allfather (and perhaps Orlanth Thunderous). The feats and affinities of this aspect are not dressed up Mralot's talents dressed up but different powers. Most Wenelians worship Orlanth the Boar with an ordinary subcult while a few practice the worship of Orlanth Adventurous or Orlanth Thunderous.
>Secondly
>Sylilan bearwalker Orlanthi/Odaylans would be another case.
The Sylilans do not worship Orlanth as a bear. They worship Odayla instead and are not former bear hsunchen.
>Hsunchen-like beast totems are not an exception among the Orlanthi.
Merely the fact that the Orlanthi worship a beast does not make it "Hsunchen-like". Hsunchenism is a specific set of spiritual practices and gloranthans can worship beasts without any hsunchen background whatsoever.
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