We all leria for Uleria

From: Peter Larsen <plarsen_at_mail.utexas.edu>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:35:28 -0600

Martin Dick says to

>> Far be it from me to interpret Mr. Metcalfe (he can do that for
>> but I think the point here is that Uleria is not (or is not seen by the
>> Heortlings to be) a force of community. She is harmony, but that's within
>> one person or perhaps between two people, not on the level of community.
>Not quite the interpretation I get from Anaxial's Roster

        Anaxial's Roster is quite a bit more global than Heortling theology.

>It would seem likely to me that it's a case where Orlanthi differ
>quite a lot and a clan's relationship with Uleria would probably
>depend upon the clan's myths of how Uleria and Ernalda interacted
>in the God Time. Some would see her as a demon, some as positive
>influence, some as neither.

        Maybe, I suppose. But it's been fairly hashed out on this list that there's precious little economic or social support for modern-style (Western, urban) prostitution amoung the Orlanthi. I don't see why she should be worshipped in Sartar any more than any other foreign god. I can't say for sure what the position of Uleria is, but it doesn't look very good.

Ian Thomson says:

>Uleria is firnly established in traditional official lore as having houses
>people may go and 'worship the goddess of love' in the physical sense
>Pavis has a temple, Apple Lane has a temple

        The Apple Lane temple has a Great Troll....

>so, these houses of love exist, and there must be a fair few if there;s
one in
>Apple Lane, even if that one turns out to be an unusual exception

        God knows what Apple Lane looks like these days; I'm not sure that the "new HW Glorantha" has large houses of prostitution with no population to support them.

>Purpose and Perceptions:
>well, since Uleria is one of the Celestial Court goddesses, she is likely
>regarded with the same wonder and puzzlement as Larnste
>IE her worshippers are weird and practice ancient rites that no longer make
>sense in the world

        Yes, they're weird and dangerous, at least to Heortlings, whose instinctive response to strangers is to kill them.

>I won't conjecture as to what this might be at the moment, but these are
>my ideas:
>- - Uleria Temples are viewed as the sites of ancient religious practices as
>weird as Larnste
>- - they will always be relatively popular, at least amongst single young

        Why? There's little taboo in Orlanthi culture for pre-marital sex. There's also the lack of a cash economy (but these are old problems, much hashed out).

>- - they provide some kind of magic which is occasionally useful to the

        Duplicated, for the most part, by acceptable gods, of which Ernalda, the Queen of the Storm Pantheon, is the most prominant.

>- - they are viewed with varying degrees of social tolerance depending on
>their locations
>- - they accept lay worshippers of any kind (except chaotics)

        But Lay Worshippers don't exist anymore. Instead we have pantheon worship, in which Uleria (as far as I know) does not belong. She could, I suppose, but being called a "demon" in TR kind of suggests against it. Hell, Humakt, a scary, deadly force that is explicity not kin is not called a demon but a thane. Even Kolat is not a demon. Uleria is pretty far out there. Hmm. Does this mean that the Heortlanders and the Sartarites have different "Storm Pantheons?" The Dragon Pass Orlanthi weren't (obviously) able to import Larnste worship.

>- - they operate according to their own religious principals, which nobody
>else understands

        So Heortling won't trust them.

>- - Ulerian worshippers have magic that allows them to exert odd and
>influence on people

        So Heortlings won't trust them.

>- - nobody wants to mess with Ulerian magic. Hey even the Orlanthi Heroes
>don't want to risk the 'terrible' reprisals of impotence etc (only some
>Humakti would be immune to such fears, but since they worship the
>ancient Rune of Death and Uleria worships the ancient Rune of Life, likely
>there is a respect and tolerance between the cults, even though the details
>of their parallel existence is not understood by the average Humakti)

        You could say the same thing about Malia. Having the Plague Spirit protect your town would be a great way to cut down the urban death rate. Nobody does it though. I'm willing to accept that Uleria is great and terrible (and alluring). I don't think her worshippers are going to have a big presence in Sartar. Perhaps it was brought in with the Lunars. After all, if people start using Ulerian "community magic," it will reduce the authority of the Ernaldans, with their foolish attachment to Orlanth. Heavens alone knows what that Great Troll is doing in Apple Lane; perhaps she's really a Blue Army agent (and a depraved one at that)....

Andrew Larsen says:

> In Gods of Glorantha, one of her rune spells specifically assists
>communication among members of any community. So I think it's safe to say
>that on some level she is a goddess of community. She oversees forces which
>unite people. Carnal love is only part of that.

        But the Heortlings are cram-packed with community building rites and deities. Why do they need to worship some weird goddess from the the very start of things? Worship of Uleria is as out of place in Sartar as worship of Innana in Medieval Scotland. In my opinion, of course.

        Grrr. See where Ulerian community magics get you? I try to give my brother a little feedback, then this happens....

Peter Larsen

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