Re: The Glorantha Digest V8 #324

From: Olli Kantola <>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:09:11 +0300 (EEST)

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Peter Metcalf wrote:

> So? I'm not talking about the Torkani, I'm talking about the
> ordinary inhabitants of Boldhome. You inferred that I was saying
> that _all_ people in the cities were demon-worshippers. You
> were wrong.

If I inferret that, then that was not my intention. The ordinary inhabitants of Boldhome are a (quite) homogeneous group of citizens, so are the Torkani, so ordinary citizens of Boldhome aren't considered demon-worshippers, but the Torkani may be.

Worshipping Uleria is accepted in cities and IF Uleria would be thought as demonic, then your average Heortling (not you) would lump citizens into a single bunch (of demon worshipping folks, evil, bad people). He knows that

> It _is_ the point. You claim Uleria must be accepted as a legitimate
> goddess or else she will be hounded from Sartar. I just pointed that
> there is a plausible social situation in which a despised goddess
> can still be found in Heortling cities without such things happening.

> > > No, it is not. 5% of 10% is 0.5% of all Orlanthi in Sartar and
> > > nowhere as large as 15%.
> >5% of 10% is 5% of the 100% of those who live in the cities. 33%
> >of the 15% that is "the rest" in the cities.
> FYI the 15% non-conformers do not all live in cities but are found
> in the Sartarite countryside. And 0.5% divided by 15% is only 3%
> rather than 33% that you claimed (and how does 33% become "nearly
> the rest"?).

Although this is rather tedious, I'm not willing to admit that I was wrong in a simple calculation. :-) 10% of ALL Sartarites live in cities. 5% of them worship Uleria (from time to time)(there may be more of them, but I'll use your figure). As the rest is 15% of all citizens, then 5% of citizens is 33,333...% of the rest. 33% is nearly the rest as 1/3 is a large faction when compared to the rest of the rest :-) as the are really small factions. We were just misunderstanding each other.

> >I am not suggesting that theistic priestesses of Uleria use sorcery.
> But you just quoted a section from Anaxial's Roster to show how
> useful Uleria was for the Heortlings. Given that it refers to
> sorcerous matters, what you quoted is inappropriate for the
> Heortlings.

> But using a spirit to cause them to fall in love (which is how
> Uleria and her Tilntae act) _is_.

Uleria is from a time when there weren't any difference between the 4 worlds, but I'm sure that her follewers from theistic cultures use theistic magic. I didn't say that they have the same powers as Tilntae, but powers like Tilntae.

> Nobody has ever said that the Heortlings hate lust. What has been
> pointed out time and again is that Uleria has a bad reputation
> among the Heortlings. Not as bad as Thed, mind you, but still
> undesirable.

As I don't believe that Uleria is a demon, so I'm unconvinced that Heortlings have any reason to believe her to be such. Worshippers of Chalana Arroy, Humakt, Urox, Yinkin and Heler can cause trouble in society, but they aren't considered demons. Granted, most of their gods have done something useful, but so has Uleria (creationg, boggles, net). Yinkin and Heler can cause trouble in the same department as Uleria, and they supplement a mainstream deity and they have a place in society.

Olli Kantola

Powered by hypermail