Re: The Glorantha Digest V8 #343

Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:58:58 -0500 (CDT)

Hervé Ancelin says to

> >When Uleria has appeared in rules and scenarios, it's been (mostly) in
> >conjunction with prostitution.
> Is it why you want to get rid of her ?

I want to move her out of Heortling myth becasue I don't think she belongs there. It's similar to the reasons why I'd rather not have prostitution as an institution in Orlanthi lands; it's unnecessary and culturally inappropriate.  

> In Glorantha, everything exists because there is a myth about it.
> You don't want Uleria worship among Heortling so who is the god/goddess
> of Love and/or Sex ? What myth support this ?
> Ernalda can't as she is the Marriage/Fertility goddess and that is
> different from Love and Sex.

For sex, try Niskis and Yinkin for men; I'm not sure about for women, but I'll bet there's a subcult of Ernalda that covers it. Heler has a sexual componant, and I suspect the Thunder Brothers (including Vinga) have stories about their sexual exploits. As for love, the love of Orlanth and Ernalda for each other is the force that drives the world. Orlanth's love for Ernalda and Barntar was the force that brought peace to the world. The second point is supported by a myth from KoS; the first is implicit in Orlanthi myth. I don't think the Orlanthi make the love/marriage distinction that you're making here.  

> Was it so difficult to update the cult description to explain that
> Uleria worship isn't the same as whoring.

I suppose not, but it's easier to discard her altogether, at least in Sartar.  

> >there are plenty of deities that serve Her functions, and serve them
> in ways that are actually in tune with the culture
> Which one ?

Which culture? Orlanthi. Which deities? See above.  

> >The bulk of the published Uleria references are, as far as I know, in
> >the Entekosiad and have to do with Pelanda, not Maniria or any other
> Orlanthi stronghold.
> Uleria wasn't renamed as was Yelmalio/Elmal/Tharkantus.
> Names and even the goddess could be different but that's not mandatory.

The point is not Uleria's name; the point is her most notable references are from a different culture than the Orlanthi/Heortlings. Shargash gets a role in Orlanthi stories, but he's not part of the Storm Tribe.  

> I disagree that Uleria isn't Heortling.
> Demonizing the DH or Lunar Goddess of Prostitutes is OK.

Then we disagree; what else can I say?  

> Worse than politically correct =:-O , removing Uleria and downplaying
> Lightbringers focus Heortlings on Orlanth and Ernalda, only concerned
> with cows, clans and marriage :-(.
> That is killing the fun. I like Heortlings because of the 15 % hippy
> cults.
> I don't care about the cults economy, in fact I don't care about any
> economy.
> Uleria cult is funny, like lead coins, like Ducks, sorry Durulz, like
> silly place
> names. Why change this ?

Really, I think the fun is just starting. I like cows, clans, and marriages a great deal more than the "cut and paste and damn the economy" world of Apple Lane. The great thing about Glorantha is its ability to make even ridiculous things (e.g. Ducks) work in a fairly serious setting. The general seriousness and cohesiveness of the setting enliven the "silly" bits of Glornatha, not the other way around. I don't think Uleria is a "funny" cult; I find sticking her randomly into a culture distracting, pointless, and, for that matter, degrading to her concept. She should be more than that.  

Jerome Blondel says:

> What strikes me is that Uleria is the power of Free Love. I get the
> impression that in Ernalda and Orlanth's views, Love is just the tool to
> achieve harmony and fertility. They teach magic so that Love be used
> properly for that purpose, but if your husband/wife ain't a good match
> for you, you better give up.

I don't buy this. Love for his family is something that rises up out of Orlanth, not something done to him.

> Ernalda and Orlanth have to unite each other so as to get to that
> achievement. Uleria can argue that she's the power between both. She's

In a Godlearnerish way. I don't think the Orlanthi believe this. "No one can make you do anything." "Love" that is diected by some sort of outward force would be unattractive to many Orlanthi.  

> sort of wind you need if you don't sacrifice regularly? In other
> societies,
> husbands and wifes will make offerings to Uleria so that they get the
> sort
> of sex they need more often, and be happier. It works very well in
> Zoria.

In other societies, fine. After all, Larnste, being the source of Motion and Change (major Storm Tribe qualities) is worshipped (or,as far as I know, even recognized) by only a very small group of Orlanthi. Where's Zoria?

> Woman may enjoy Lunar equality if
> they become Lunar citizens and adopt the Lunar religion. Outside the
> Lunar
> religion it can't work because that's not in their myths. IMO.

Hmm. I can see it: a daring escape from the women's quarters to the nearest Lunar temple, a midnight conversion, and then the political trouble starts....  

> Yelm and the Red Goddess have mythological reasons to cast down the
> rebel.

Yelm does; I think the Goddess was a rebel Herself, back in the day.

> He can't be healed, or doesn't want to, because he's the originator of
> the wrongs. Ernalda tried to moderate his violence, Waiting for him to be
> healed, but he rejected her. Now she's got her place among the Lunar
> deities [snipped for space]

And a very nice speech it is, too -- something I'd expect to hear from a Tarshite missionary in Sartar.

> true that the Earth cultists are proner to welcom the Goddess's message,
> as
> they did in Esrolia and Tarsh. Her message holds a couple of Truths that
> are not to displease them, especially in Esrolia where the message that
> men's blood makes good manure is easier to pass.

And well said again

Peter Larsen

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