Re: Islamic Glorantha

From: Stephen Tempest <>
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:01:11 GMT

>From: "Posselt, Theo (US - Foster City)" <>

>I hadn't thought about that analogy before. So Rinliddi == Mecca? And by
>this parallel Glamour would be, I suppose, Damascus? It can't be Baghdad,
>because that's Iranian/Carmanian (in our analogy system). I don't know
>enough about Islamic history on this one - was Damascus ever the seat of an
>Caliph who ruled all of Islam? And if so, when?

Baghdad was a new city, founded by the Abbasid Caliph Abd al-Rahman in 763. It was never Persian, so could be a good match for Glamour. (By that analogy, the nearby and much older city of Babylon would be a good candidate for Raibanth).

Damascus was the capital of the Umayyad dynasty, which ruled Islam before the Abbasids (661-750).

I like this analogy, except that existing Gloranthan history presents the first Lunars as a motley crew of Dara Happan rebels and rogue Carmanians, putting together a convoluted and over-civilised conspiracy in the back room of a hotel - rather than a group of ascetic religious fanatics sweeping out of the wilderness onto civilisation like a desert storm...

>Terra says some things I don't exactly understand:
>> If we afford using parallel between Mongolian and Turkish, (and Sheng
>> Seleris was Timur rather than Ghingis Khan.) we can apply
>> Former Empire to
>> Seljuk Turkey and Latter Empire to Ottoman Turkey.
>I don't know enough history to follow this one. Wasn't Timur a Turk?
>What's the difference between Seljuk Turkey and Ottoman Turkey?

The Seljuk Turks migrated into the Middle East from 1037 onwards and established a series of kingdoms there. They briefly ruled almost the entire area (and scared the Christians of Europe enough to trigger the Crusades), but eventually their power was limited to central and eastern Anatolia (modern Turkey).

Timur was ethnically Turkish, but from the Turks who remained in central Asia, kept to the nomadic way of life, and became vassals of the Mongols. He saw himself as the successor to Ghengis Khan, and tried to conquer the entire Middle East in the years 1369-1405. He caused much destruction but did not build a lasting empire.

The Ottoman state was originally one of many minor Turkish powers in Anatolia following the loss of Seljuk unity, founded in about 1280. By 1361 it had expanded into Europe. It was briefly conquered by Timur, but by 1430 was once more expanding. It captured Constantinople in 1453 and went on to dominate most of the Mediterranean basin.

I can see loose parallels between this and the Lunar/Sheng situation; where I think it falls down is the link between the Seljuks and the pre-Sheng Lunar Empire: I can't see much similarity there, I'm afraid.


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