Re: Umayyad and Abbasyd, Seljuk and Ottoman

From: TERRA INCOGNITA <inarsus-ferilt-z_at_mrg.biglobe.ne.jp>
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:14:23 +0900


>Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 10:39:13 -0500
>From: "Posselt, Theo (US - Foster City)" <tposselt_at_dc.com>
>Subject: Re: Islamic Glorantha

>Terra, Adept and I (mostly) discussed this a while ago on the herowars
list.
>It might be useful searching for 'Gloranthan names' on the herowars
>archives. As a refresher, I had brought up the question (essentially) of
>what cultural names we could pull on, to suggest to the players the best
>implicit parallels to earth cultures.

>I seem to recall that Adept and I basically agreed on the following
>parallels:
>Lunar: Arabic
>Carmanian: Persian/Iranian
>Firespeech: Hebrew (possible replacement: Ancient egyptian?)
>Pelandan: ancient greek
>Dara Happan: Sumerian
>Darjiinian: 'soft' sumerian

I can switch Position of Pelandan and Dara Happan. (Then Firespeech becomes Sumerian, Dara Happan to Babylonian or...?)

>An alternative concept would be:
>Firespeech: Sumerian
>Dara Happan: Hebrew
>Darjiinian: Philistine/Phoenician/Canaanite

>In any case, those were the thoughts at the time. Terra makes a couple
more
>good points:
>> We can
>> see Lunar Empire start unlimitedly from Rinliddi as Army of
>> Arabian Prophet
>> Muhammed in RW. This parallel starts Islamic Lunar Empire.

I have read descripition about many Pilgrimage to the Place of Seven Goddess Conspiracy per year in Genertela Book.

>I hadn't thought about that analogy before. So Rinliddi == Mecca? And by
>this parallel Glamour would be, I suppose, Damascus? It can't be Baghdad,
>because that's Iranian/Carmanian (in our analogy system). I don't know
>enough about Islamic history on this one - was Damascus ever the seat of an
>Caliph who ruled all of Islam? And if so, when?

The first dynasty of Arab caliphs (661-750). Its capital was Damascus. Muawiya was Founder of his Dynasty.
Second Caliph of Umayyad, son of Muawiya killed Imam Husayn in Karbala. (They liked White Color.)
Later, more Iranized Abbasyd took hegemony from them. (They liked Black Color.) Abd-al Rahman fled from their massacre to Blood of Umayyad Nobles and founded his own Dynasty in Spain.

>Terra says some things I don't exactly understand:
>> If we afford using parallel between Mongolian and Turkish, (and Sheng
>> Seleris was Timur rather than Ghingis Khan.) we can apply
>> Former Empire to
>> Seljuk Turkey and Latter Empire to Ottoman Turkey.

>I don't know enough history to follow this one. Wasn't Timur a Turk?
>What's the difference between Seljuk Turkey and Ottoman Turkey?

Timur insisted he was a descendant of Genghis Khan. But in actual condition, he is poor birth of ruined minor noble. So he must insist his noble blood as others.

Seljuk Turkey: A Turkish dynasty ruling in central and western Asia from the 11th to the 13th century. They kept Abbasyd Caliphs as Puppet for their Religeous Terms. (I found some similarity between Japanese Emperors and Samurai Shogunates.) Their Immigrants (and conquest) to Asia Minor of Byzantine Empire was a factor of Europian Crusades to Levant.

Ottoman Turkey: A vast Turkish sultanate of southwest Asia, northeast Africa, and southeast Europe. It was founded in the 13th century by Osman I and ruled by his descendents until its dissolution after World War I. Originally a small state controlled by Ottoman or Osmanli Turks, it spread rapidly, superseding the Byzantine Empire in the east.

>> Chinese Influence to Middle Asia:
>> Sheng Seleris's Image is greatly influenced from the
>> Photocopy of Fortunate
>> Succession, but that Statuette is made in the period of Tang
>> Dynasty as
>> Ancient Virtuous God-Emperor Yao...Don't arrogantly dare to think you
>> conceive aesthetic sense of Ancients...
>>

>I'm confused here as well... who is being arrogant, exactly?

See Fortunate Succession p. 61 photo. Horrible! It is one of Staffordish Mischief.


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