robert darvall
> At the risk of resurrecting this old zombie; is this the mythic reason
> for a "horizon" on a flat world?
Not necessarily - haze limits the line of sight even on our round world most of the time. Reflection on thermal layers of air (Fata Morgana) might become more probable at longer distances (hmm, an application of Elmal's or Yelmalio's shield of reflection, or light repelled from the air?)
> The Middle Air continues to resist
> Light thus restricting the distance it travels.
It is the Lower Air I was talking about, but in my book all tiers of Air have a resisting effect to Light.
> I'm actually more interested in the Light/Air interactions than the
> horizon question. AFAIC if you're high enough to see over all
> intervening obstacles you have other worries, like hostile Sky deities
> or walking on the outside of the sky dome.
You don't have to go up all that far - Zenith, the dwarfen lookout, sits at the border of the Middle Air. Although it probably is a fortress in its own right.
Alex Ferguson
> Joerg quoth me:
>>> That's my understanding also. The RM isn't *quite* in the sky world, >>> but is very nearly so, and even more so (in some sense I shall make >>> imprecise...) in the Glowline.
>> Ah, that's easy. Within the Glowline, the sky world is closer to the >> surface world, as is fitting for the Dara Happan Empire.
> I rather like that. They didn't move the moon at all, "just" the sky.
> ;-)
They didn't move the sky, they purified the layers in between. Or so.
Really, it's just a matter of perspective. The Lunars have brought earth into sky (the Red Moon), so why not the other way round as well?
>> The apparent size or shape for casting the Lunar shadow can of course be >> much larger than the red body itself.
> That would be Very Odd Indeed, I think. Can you explain how this would
> appear, visually?
The Black Orbiter which is said to be the cause for the phases could
have a
spherical shape which might overlap with the Lunar surface, nullifying
its glow there. Its interaction with Sunlight might be a much larger
area. If so, on a strange phase the red body might be a small appendix
on the larger black shadow which may obscure the sun on a partial
eclipse.
>> Clouds of that density do remind you of eclipses... and you get roving >> shadows in Dagori Inkarth and possibly atop Shadow Plateau which are in >> effect moving eclipses.
> If you have an opaque body across the whole _sky_, surely. If you
> have a "low" body, obscuring the sun, but _not_ the rest of the sky,
> then it won't be especially dark (unless there's something else funky
> going on).
I know of no reports of Orlanthi flying above or through the shadows of Dagori Inkarth - might be an interesting boast/quest. However, if an opaque "cloud cover" obscures say 70 percent of the sky, including the sun, the scattered light from the side will be fairly weak. After all, the shadow absorbs scattered light as well.
>> Hmm. When the moon crashes down, does this mean that this giant shadow >> creeping all over half of its surface gets to creep over the Surface >> World?
> That certainly a very cool image. I have no idea if it makes any actual
> sense or not, but I've always thought actual sense can be over-rated...
Just a small thing more to worry about the Lunar fallout.
>> BTW, any official word on the Lunar phases within the Silver Shadow? >> Observable: probably, but rather as a direction? "There's alwas half >> moon in the Silver Shadow"?
> Is there even any Official word confirming the "searchlight theory",
> in the first place? (I come to praise same, I hasten to add; it's
> certainly part of my own "working model".)
I think some Lore Auction did confirm that.
> I'd tend to think each
> seventh of the SS showed the searchlight phases; inside the Crater
> itself: well, you're now mad, illuminated, transported to the moon
> itself, or some combination of the above, so what do you care about
> mere superficialities any more?
Hmm. This does make some strange topological sense if you assume that there is nothing between the Red Moon surface and the inside surface of the Crater.
There would be no winds blowing through the space between Crater and Moon, or birds/bats/whatever flying. This would be some weird Godtime manifestation (much like the Eternal Battle or the Skyfall). Probably there is no space between Crater and Moon surface, just broken universe.
>> Most such conjunctions are observable only at night or during eclipses >> (unless you're a Buseri).
> Other than in the sense that solar events at night aren't especially
> interesting, I'm not at all clear why this would be so, in general.
When the sun is in the sky, the only other visible bodies are the Red Moon and occasionally Shargash, maybe Theya and Rausa. None of the others are bright enough to rival Yelm. At night, Lightfore takes the role of the sun in the sky.
Me'n Alex
>> I note that the triangulation becomes somewhat less reliable if you are >> anywhere where the direction of the tin compass and the Red Moon are >> collinear.
> That's a fair point. And it's less accurate as you get close to such
> a line, for a given accuracy of bearing.
Indeed. That's why the extreme West or East might have an interest, whereas Kethaelans and Masloi have to go without most of the time.
>> You need to work in the apparent height of the Red Moon, or >> there will be no triangulation at all.
> And I don't think moon height works for this purpose. At least,
> not without "illuminated trig", at best...
Considering my speculation that there is no space between Crater and Red Moon, hence no distance, no measurable height, the concept of height of the Red Moon seems wrong. Yet there ought to be mountain peaks which touch or interverne between the viewer and the Red Moon. If those peaks may have a measurable apparent height, then the red body behind them would have to have one, too. It would be interesting to see whether this apparent height is roughly the same anyhwere outside the Glowline.
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