Re: LBQ and souls

From: Ben Waggoner <>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:41:27 -0700

From: Alex Ferguson <>
> Well, from the PoV of Yelm Proper, it's also based on the "LBQ", but
> t'other way around... (Make your enemies grovel and beg, then Resurrect
> Self.) In the broader Pelorian/Lunar tradition, though, there are
> evidently significantly different takes, which I hesitate to speak
> off the cuff of...

    That seems a lot more difficult to do. Perhaps your friends have to round up the killer and make them repent? Or your absence would have to make something so hideous back home that they change their mind.

    Of course, we don't know of any Maximum Four-born or equivalent. It seems a lot more Orlanthi to keep getting killed and bouncing back. Solars take care not to get killed in the first place, but when killed, in sticks.

    Anyone know anything about Lunar resurrection? I gather YA has some kind of auto resurrection.

From: Gianfranco Geroldi <>
> LBQ is an adventurous, cooperative, effort in which a
> bunch of friends/allies tries to correct/redeem the
> error of one of them. It's about friendship, alliance,
> exchange, movement and repentance.
> Yelmic theology seems to me straighter and more
> coercitive. It's about authority and hierarchy. I
> suppose that a Yelmic hero has to travel to the right
> otherworld/hell where his friend is kept, fight/scare
> the boss of that precise otherworld/hell and command
> him/her to release the hero's friend. The main problem
> is that if the otherworld/hell lies within the
> mythological boundary of the Darkness, Yelmic power is
> greatly reduced so the hero can be unable to
> defeat/scare the boss of the otherworld. I daresay few
> Yelmic resurrections succeed anyway.

    Yep. Do we know of any Solar resurrections of others besides that of Yelm?

> Earth resurrections are more likely to succeed and I
> place in this category also aldryami resurrections
> (based on growth/green age myths) and Lunar
> resurrections (based presumably on Earth-age myths).
> Earth, IMO, has the power to negate death and the
> knowledge to anticipate it. So a resurrection quest
> could request, for example, that the killer is caught,
> deprived of his death powers in a mythical contest so
> that the killing has not occurred since he was not
> able to wield it.

    The winter/spring cycle would seem a fertile source for myths for Earth resurrection.

    Given the elemental cycle of Glorantha, Orlanth sure was smart to marry the one element stronger then himself into the tribe. Or maybe Earth wanted someone who could fight darkness better, and Earth's dominance over Storm kept Orlanth from being able to resist Ernalda's pacifying charms. The story is told like Orlanth decided for settle down himself, but those married men among us can certainly imagine how it REALLY happened...

> I wonder if Lunars can also perform a sort of tricked
> LBQ, based on Storm myths healed to fit the Lunar way.

    Yep. I wonder if it would be weaker in some way, though. The old RQ2/3 pitch of the 7M as "Healed" versions of the Lightbringer cults suggested that the Lunar versions were just flat-out magically superior. However, this being Glorantha, I'm sure they all have some secret weakness. The greater flexibility of YT has to have a corresponding cost, and not just pretending that using the Crimson Bat on civilians is honorable.

From: Peter Larsen <>
> Could be, and it would certainly explain some things. On the
> other hand, I'm not sure that anyone goes on a LBQ with a detailed
> result planned -- you want help, but I think it's up to the gods (or
> Fate) to determine what you get. I also think that any "gift" from
> the Underworld will be a mixed blessing -- Arkat and Sheng being two
> excellent examples. Furthermore, say you really want Arkat back (and
> manage to convine a huge number of people to help you get him); what
> do you really know about Arkat? You have some legends, some dubious
> histories, and some cult lore -- the "real" Arkat (supposing you get
> the real Arkat and ignoring the effects of a millennia of being dead
> and worshipped) is not too likely to be what you imagined. None of
> this says your idea is wrong, but it would be one factor among many.
> The LBQ is pretty much a desperation move, I think -- no one does it
> on a lark.

    One exception to the general "help" is Argrath, who seems to have really wanted Sheng and nobody else. Before we talked about some alternative useful folks he could have asked for, like the OOO, or even Harmast himself. And was his quest unique in being offered a choice of who to bring back? Or can you bring someone back who is worshipped?

    Perhaps Argrath knew how to ask for a particular person back because he was a part, or even a subject, of a resurrection ritual once.

    The more I think about this, the fewer people it seems can be brought back via an LBQ. Of course, we only know of seven or so that were actually completed.

    Man, I wish I had a copy of the Harmastsaga next to my KoS for reference! That would make this, and a lot of other stuff, a lot more detailed (although I'm sure it would, delightfully, open far more questions than it would close).

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