to me:
>>Pretty much every god and hero owns their own rune now.
>
>But there's a big difference between the rune of a god
>and the ownership of a primal rune.
We're in agreement here, but I'm still unconvinced thet "holding a
rune" makes a god great. More likely it's the great gods who hold runes, if
anything.
>
>>Besides, Chalana Arroy "owns" a rune and she isn't a Great God.
>
>Yes, she does. She's been so since RQ3.
I don't buy this. CA is important, being "perhaps even the source of all healing" (Storm Tribe, p.31), but she does not have enough variety to really be a great god -- she does one thing in different ways.
>>Mastakos owns a rune, and he's a subcult.
>
>I would read the Mastakos definition again if I were you. He
>has a separate identity from Orlanth and is explicitly stated
>there not to be a guise of Orlanth. He is also associated with
>Magasta (in the Mer Pantheon) and perhaps Larnste as well
>(depends on how bad his leg is).
Yes, I'm aware of this, but I find it hard to believe that a great god wouldn't be worshipped as something other than a subcult of another god.
>> >Shargash does not represent life. His Death is necessary for
>> >Life to exist but that is different.
>
>>According to Enclosure 1 (as far as I know the best source of
>>information on Shargash to date), Shargash, as Alkor, is "husband to Oslira
>>and father of all the peoples of Alkoth" (Enclosure 1, p. 35).
>
>He divorced Oslira in mythic times. This from the Blue Dragon
>Sshorga myth which was once the myth of the month up at
>www.glorantha.com.
[snip]
>Secondly merely because Shargash is described as ancestral to
>the people of Alkoth does not make him a fertility deity. By
>that logic, Bagog, Thed and Malia are fertility deities.
Well, Bagog is the fertility of the Scorpion Men. Thed is mostly dead, and Malia deliberately corrupted her fertility, so I'm not sure the last two are good examples. Besides, isn't Thed more of a "step-mother to the Broo?"
>>One of his Secret Names is "Stick and Stone -- Shargash holds the
>>power of fertility, just as new green shoots sprout after a brushfire."
>
>That is an interpretation of Shargash's names and Stone and Stick
>refers more probably to weapons. The actual list of Shargash's
>names is (this is Alkothi material BTW):
[snip]
>Doesn't sound like a god of life and death.
Shargash, I think, doesn't bring much life outside of Alkoth. Inside Alkoth he's pretty much everything, if Enclosure 1 is any guide. Besides, one hymn is not necessarily going to address all of a god's functions. When Heler the Black Ram is praised for His power to smack our foes silly, we're hadly likely to go on about how cute his loins are (cute as they are)....
>>Outside of Alkoth, Shargash is worshipped in fewer forms, all (I assume)
>>concerned with violence.
>
>Outside of Alkoth, Shargash is worshipped only in a propitiatory sense.
Surely the Alkoth military units continue to worship him as usual whether they are home or on campaign.
>>In my reasoning (which could be wrong), this makes
>>Shargash a Great God in Alkoth but not elsewhere. It's similar to the way
>>that Maran Gor is a fairly simple minor god in Sartar, but a Great God in
>>Tarsh.
>
>I'm not a great fan of the implication that belief is what makes
>a god great.
Well, maybe it's the other way around -- within their domain, a great god has many faces and can call many worshippers. Outside that domain, the god can call fewer worshippers and offer less potent magics, so they simplify.
>>Yelm is; he is the Sun, the Holder of Justice (maybe its source),
>>the God of Rulers, the Allfather, Bringer of Fertility (you don't think
>>it's those yucky women, do you?), etc.
>
>And so why does Humakt not get to be a great god because of
>his aspects as the Sword (Hu), the Master of Weapons (Kargan),
>the Leader of Battles (Efrodar Blackhands), the Loyal One
>(Maklamann), the Nightwatchman (Rigsdal)?
Um, because those aspects have about as much variety as a carton of eggs. Lets see: we have killing (Hu), killing (Kargan), killing in an organized fashion (Efrodar), kill undead (Indrodar and Li), be loyal (and kill) (Makla Mann), and watch for people to kill (Rigsdal). Compare this to Orlanth who covers pretty much the range of Heortling male roles. A clan with only Orlanthi will do fine; a clan with only Humakti is in deep trouble (or everyone around them is). In Storm Tribe, only Elmal and Heler (maybe) exhibit the range of aspects that a clan needs to surive. Vinga, too, maybe, but that's because she's a door into Orlanth. The other gods are cool, and have neat and necessary functions, but they are not complex enough to be really great. In my opinion. While I'm on the subject, shouldn't Maran have a leader aspect?
>Uleria happens to be an important divinity in Pelanda.
Well, then, she could be great. (Actually, as I said earlier, she's a special case -- she might be a great god with only two followers.)
I really doubt if a single culture is going to have more than a few great gods -- the Heortlings have Orlanth and Ernalda, Elmal for some tribes (and maybe Heler, although the extermination of his people may leave him out). Vinga, too, maybe. How many great gods do they need?
Peter Larsen
End of The Glorantha Digest V8 #493
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