Re: Humakt

From: Blatt Barry <bazblatt_at_cwcom.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:00:08 +0100


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The distinction should be that Humakt's (and allied deities') death is = the line of division between the material plane and the otherworld place = where your spirit goes to when dead. The destruction caused by chaos is = something else as explained below. In normal unchaotic death you still = 'exist', you are just not on the material plane any more, and whatever = happens to you when you have crossed over depends entirely on your = culture. The opposition to undeath arises as these are people who have = come back accross that line, or have been brought back by those trying = to blur the line, or are sprits of the underworld bound to a living body = that ought to be lying quietly returning to Ernalda's earth etc.

This implies that Humakti ought to be opposed to any resurrection as a = violation of this rule. They do not subscribe to it themselves, and in = their own version of the afterlife they patrol the ways of the = underworld to make sure everyone stays in their allotted place, and gets = to the afterlife their Gods have decreed suitable with the minimum of = fuss and bother. How they would accept others being resurrected I don't = know - perhaps in the rituals of resurrection among peoples who = recognise Humakt there is a part that deals with appeasing or pleading = with Humakt for an exception (a parole board for Hell?) and this would = not appear to be too difficult to arrange in most cases.

One would also think that Humakti aren't keen on shamanism either. The = shamen insist the sprits they use are natural inhabitants of the spirit = world, indeed that we material beings are natural inhabitants of that = world who have been bound to material bodies for a temporary stay, but = this coming and going across the borders of death is suspect in the = Humakti view and disrespectful of their deity.

The awful thing about Chaos destruction as opposed to death is that you = do not go to the afterlife you have been promised (or threatened with). = No happy feasting in Orlanth's hall, no waiting in a not too = uncomfortable limbo waiting for rebirth, but a total exclusion from the = world, all the known otherworlds and underworlds, complete dissapearance = in this time, and the future and the past as well. Gloranthans are = familiar enough with their otherworlds that on the whole they accept = death as they accept migration to another part of the material world - = not always pleasant, not always desired, but you know that the migrant = is still out there somewhere, and if you try hard enough you can go and = visit them. They have no idea what happens when the chaos gods get your = soul - maybe it's gone someplace else, or maybe destroyed forever, = opinions vary, but everyone agrees no one ever came back to tell us = about it except possibly in very changed state as a Chaos spirit. The = Chaos gods however can bend and break any rule, and divert the departed = soul into any number of afterlives, consume it for their own use, or = even send it back to the material plane as an undead being to further = their own ends.

This could explain Vivamort - these power crazed loons that their =

misdeeds in search of domination of the material plane will result in =
dire consequences if they get judged by thier own culture's gods, but =
Vivamort can save them from this and send their souls back across the =
barrier of death to carry on as before. What will ultimately happen to = their souls when they do get their just desserts? Will Vivamort save = them and take them to an afterlife of his own devising? Or will they get = grabbed by their outraged cultural deities and sent off for an eternity = of torture? Or be cast out of the universe entirely into chaos to who = knows what fate?

Likewise Zorak Zoran. He has a different attitude to rules and = regulations to Humakt, and sees nothing wrong with breaking the laws of = death Humakt holds so dear by creating undead if it helps his followers = in the material plane. This attitude may be general for Darkness = deities. Their underworld and the material world are one and the same, = in effect, two originally seperate worlds that collided during the = Lesser Darkness. For Humakt and his allies it was important to enforce a = 'border control' between the two, for the Darkness gods it was = imperative they break the border to save the trolls from Yelm. Their = embracing of undeath earns them the emnity of the Earth gods - your soul = is your deities, but your material casing, your body, is theirs and = should be returned to the Earth by burial or burning and scattering. = Keeping the body from Earth by putting the soul back into it after death = and having it trot around as a zombie is not on (though zombies rot and = the earth gets its material back bit by bit), and the generally = diminished abilities of the undead are proof of the superiority of Earth = in this matter (though ZZ mummies are good try by the powers of Darkness = to fight back, and Vivamort and his vampires laugh at the Earth gods = attempts to reclaim their own).

As for the distinction between 'fighting' gods and 'bringers of death', = the difference is that for the combat deities and their followers = violence is a means to political and personal ends (war is diplomacy by = other means) and one method of dealing with opponents is removing them = to the exile of the underworld. Followers of bringers of death have a = different view - violence kills people, and the act of sending souls = accross the barrier of death is an act of prayer to their god and proof = of his power. Death gods of this type may even eschew violence in favour = of other methods of forcing this transmigration, deities of starvation = perhaps, though disease as personified by Malia is seen as chaotic and a = violation of some variety of the rules for some reason (why?).

So should Humakti oppose Chaos? Yes, they should. Humakt is a god = personifying the law of death, and has strict rules about who crosses = and gets to come back and where the soul goes on the other side, and the = Chaos gods are always trying to mess this neat scheme up. They are by no = means the only ones doing this admittedly, but the awful threat of = chaotic destruction and casting souls out of the universe entirely is = the biggest violation you can commit.

Dunno how well this hangs together logically, but it does have the = potential for some good adventures and sagas as Humakti fight to protect = the souls of the dead from kidnapping and destruction by chaos beasts = loose on the paths of death.

Barry Blatt

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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The distinction should be that Humakt's (and allied =
deities')=20
death is the line of division between the material plane and the = otherworld=20
place where your spirit goes to when dead. The destruction caused by = chaos is=20
something else as explained below. In normal unchaotic death you still = 'exist',=20
you are just not on the material plane any more, and whatever happens to = you=20
when you have crossed over depends entirely on your culture. The = opposition to=20
undeath arises as these are people who have come back accross that line, = or have=20
been brought back by those trying to blur the line, or are sprits of the =

underworld bound to a living body that ought to be lying quietly = returning to=20
Ernalda's earth etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This implies that&nbsp;Humakti ought to be opposed =
to any=20
resurrection as a violation of this rule. They do not subscribe to it=20 themselves, and in their own version of the afterlife they patrol the = ways of=20
the underworld to make sure everyone stays in their allotted place, and = gets to=20
the afterlife their Gods have decreed suitable with the minimum of fuss = and=20
bother. How they would accept others being resurrected I don't know - = perhaps in=20
the rituals of resurrection among peoples who recognise Humakt there is = a part=20
that deals with appeasing or pleading with Humakt for an exception (a = parole=20
board for Hell?) and this would not appear to be too difficult to = arrange in=20
most cases.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT size=3D2>One would also think that Humakti =
aren't keen on=20
shamanism either. The shamen insist the sprits they use are natural = inhabitants=20
of the spirit world, indeed that we material beings are natural = inhabitants of=20
that world who have been bound to material bodies for a temporary stay, = but this=20
coming and going across the borders of death is suspect in the Humakti = view and=20
disrespectful of their deity.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The awful thing about Chaos destruction as opposed =
to death is=20
that you do not go to the afterlife you have been promised (or = threatened with).=20
No happy feasting in Orlanth's hall, no waiting in a not too = uncomfortable limbo=20
waiting for rebirth, but a total exclusion from the world, all the known =

otherworlds and underworlds, complete dissapearance in this time, and = the future=20
and the past as well. Gloranthans are familiar enough with their = otherworlds=20
that on the whole they accept death as they accept migration to another = part of=20
the material world - not always pleasant, not always desired, but you = know that=20
the migrant is still out there somewhere, and if you try hard enough you = can go=20
and&nbsp;visit them. They have no idea what happens when the chaos gods = get your=20
soul - maybe it's gone someplace else, or maybe destroyed forever, = opinions=20
vary, but everyone agrees no one ever came back to tell us about it = except=20
possibly in very changed state as a Chaos spirit. The Chaos gods however = can=20
bend and break any rule, and divert the departed soul into any number of =

afterlives, consume it for their own use, or even send it back to the = material=20
plane as an undead being to further their own ends.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This could explain Vivamort - these power crazed =
loons that=20
their misdeeds in search of domination of the material plane will result = in dire=20
consequences if they get judged by thier own culture's gods, but = Vivamort can=20
save them from this and send their souls back across the barrier of = death to=20
carry on as before. What will ultimately happen to their souls when they = do get=20
their just desserts? Will Vivamort save them and take them to an = afterlife of=20
his own devising? Or will they get grabbed by their outraged cultural = deities=20
and sent off for an eternity of torture? Or&nbsp; be cast out of the = universe=20
entirely into chaos to who knows what fate?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Likewise Zorak Zoran. He has a different attitude to =
rules and=20
regulations to Humakt, and sees nothing wrong with breaking the laws of = death=20
Humakt holds so dear by creating undead if it&nbsp;helps his followers = in the=20
material plane. This attitude may be general for Darkness deities. Their =

underworld and the material world are one and the same, in effect, two=20 originally seperate worlds that collided during the Lesser Darkness. For = Humakt=20
and his allies it was important to enforce a 'border control' between = the two,=20
for the Darkness gods it was imperative they break the border to save = the trolls=20
from Yelm. Their embracing of undeath earns them the emnity of the Earth = gods -=20
your soul is your deities, but your material casing, your body, is = theirs and=20
should be returned to the Earth by burial or burning and scattering. = Keeping the=20
body from Earth by putting the soul back into it after death and having = it trot=20
around as a zombie is not on (though zombies rot and the earth gets its = material=20
back bit by bit), and the generally diminished abilities of the undead = are proof=20
of the superiority of Earth in this matter (though ZZ mummies are good = try by=20
the powers of Darkness to fight back, and Vivamort and his vampires = laugh at the=20
Earth gods attempts to reclaim their own).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>As for the distinction between 'fighting' gods and =
'bringers=20
of death', the difference is that for the combat deities and their = followers=20
violence is a means to political and personal ends (war is diplomacy by = other=20
means) and one method of dealing with opponents is removing them to the = exile of=20
the underworld. Followers of bringers of death have a different view - = violence=20
kills people, and the act of sending souls accross the barrier of death = is an=20
act of prayer to their god and proof of his power. Death gods of this = type may=20
even eschew violence in favour of other methods of forcing this = transmigration,=20
deities of starvation perhaps, though disease as personified by Malia is = seen as=20
chaotic and a violation of some variety of the rules for some reason=20 (why?).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So should Humakti oppose Chaos? Yes, they should. =
Humakt is a=20
god personifying the law of death, and has strict rules about who = crosses and=20
gets to come back and where the soul goes on the other side, and the = Chaos gods=20
are always trying to mess this neat scheme up. They are by no means the = only=20
ones doing this admittedly, but the awful threat of chaotic destruction = and=20
casting souls out of the universe entirely is the biggest violation you = can=20
commit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Dunno how well this hangs together logically, but it =
does have=20
the potential for some good adventures and sagas as Humakti fight to = protect the=20
souls of the dead from kidnapping and destruction by chaos beasts loose = on the=20
paths of death.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Barry Blatt</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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