Humakt etc.

From: Peter Metcalfe <>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:28:40 +1200

Peter Larsen:

>Me>Humakt does not chose to oppose Orlanth's return, he _shows_
> >Orlanth how to return. Thus there's little difference between
> >Shargash's resurrection of the world and Humakt's.

> I think you're reading more into the word "let" ("and let his
>brother rise again") than I do.

Well, it follows naturally from "Humakt then showed the secrets of his honor and justice [to his brother]..." so the idea that Humakt's just standing there passively while his brother is casting heal 6 repeatedly seems forced. Even in the Tales#5 version of the cult, we got told:

         Seeking [the sword, Humakt] took the road to Hell, and
         there found both the Sword and the Monster of the Void.
         Humakt crippled it so that Arachne Solara could overcome
         and devour the Monster, hiding it forever.  Humakt joined
         the Council of Gods and used the Sword to shatter the Well
         of Death restoring life to the world.  Thus did Death
         serve Life and take its place in the song of the universe.
                         ToTRM#5 p22

>Well, I don't think Humakt renews; he ends things.

He doesn't end Orlanth.

>Humakt has never had renewal associations; if you get a new life
>through Humakt, it's by cutting away the old one.

Even on your narrow reading of the passage of Storm Tribe, Orlanth will have to disagree.

>Humakt's followers are _less_ than other people, despite their greater
>powers in some areas. Shargash's followers, even the berserks, are
>not limited in the same way.

Given that what Humakti are giving up is commonly acknowledged to be their humanity, Shargashi can be said to be limited in a similar way.

> >Harst, Yavor and Mastakos are not part of Orlanth the Great
> >God. They are Thunder Brothers and other gods whose worship
> >is _compatible_ with an aspect of Orlanth (whether it be
> >Allfather for Harst, Adventuros for Mastakos and Thunderous
> >for Yavor).

>Now _you're_ splitting hairs; their worship is tied up in the
>worship of Orlanth the Great God.

No, they are not. One can worship Mastakos and Harst without having anything to do with Orlanth. Mastakos is even part of Movement (his own Great God) and Magasta, the Great God of the Oceans. So how can Mastakos be said to be "tied up" in the worship of Orlanth the Great God?

>Disciples, exclusively devoted to an Aspect of Orlanth, gain
>access to the magic of all the subcults of their aspect, even
>those who aren't literally Orlanth.

And since Mastakos, Yavor and Harst are not literally Orlanth, then what point is there in claiming that they are part of Orlanth the Great God? Even Thunder Rebels only states that Orlanth is manifest in four primary aspects as well as several subcults (p207), not that all subcults of Orlanth are part of him. The Thunder Brothers for example are not Orlanth (in the way that Varanorlanth or Orlanthcarl are) yet they can be worshipped as subcults of him.

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