Great Gods and the nasty fate of Sheng

Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:25:58 -0000

Barry Blatt enters the fray again :

>So you imply that where a god is closely associated with a major law
of the
>Gloranthan universe or a key archetype he gets into more myths. But
>cultures have their own gods and twist on the cosmology. Death is
>but Death is (to the Pelorians) Shargash too. Where the ideas are
>enough the same name gets into the myths of both cultures when the
>cultures meet and have priests arguing with each other and trying to
>to their own people what the strange folk up the road beleive and do.

Orlanthi who have heard of the Dara Happan myth of Rebellus Terminus may
equate this with Orlanth's slaying of the evil emperor, but they don't change the orrigonal myths. The god learners did amalgamate myths together
in this way, and are responsible for the myth where Orlanth slays Yelm,
but they were outsiders and the Heortlings know that the old, true myths
are different.

I don't think the priests often need to bother explaining what the strange folk up the road believe. They may use mythic correspondences to enhance their rituals though, or as propaganda.

>Are myths where death is personified and dealt out by Zorak Zoran
>referring to Humakt too?

Whan a ZZ Troll kills one of their people, the Heortlings know the role
that Humakt played. The Heortlings do not know or care much about Troll
myths, so it's not an issue for them.

> ...This is a sort of explanation as to why the
GL had
>to invent Humct, a more generalised version of death god with none
of this
>awkward culturally determined baggage who could be slotted into any
>role where death is involved.

I don't think the God Learners did invent Humct. They didn't need to -  they
were able to directly subborn and manipulate the myths of Humakt.

> ...And then the game was up as far as the
>were concerned because Humct wasn't any kind of deity they could
>but a peice of sorcerous nonsense that had been foisted on them for
>knows what reasons.

Have you any reason to believe that any theists have ever had Humct foisted
on them? Humct is a western explanation for theist religious beliefs, not
an attempt to manipulate those beliefs.

>Once Heroquesting was discovered just killing someone was not enough
to get
>rid of them for good, any sufficiently powerful mate of theirs could
>the barrier of death and the myths told them exactly where to find
them and
>how to get them out.

But puting your victims in a special hell doesn't stop them from being rescued, as Argrath proved when he brought back Sheng Seleris.

> ...Maybe I was a bit extreme when I said diverting
>after death was a chaos thing - it would be something they would do
and why
>they are so feared, but wouldn't sufficiently powerful non-chaos
types do it
>too if they had to?

Chaos annihilates souls, or perverts them into perverse or unrecognisable

> ...Or is the temptation to extend your rule
beyond the
>material plane into the realms of the gods and spirits that hubris
>leads to inevitable corruption and downfall? (Arkat, GodLearners,
EWF) Arkat taught to heroquest with humility. We do not know if he violated that rule in the end, but there is no evidence that he did.

You appear from context to be refering to the Lunars. The Empire was certainly destroyed, but the masters of the Lunar way always taught that
this was inevitable. Many here could reasonably argue that the Lunar Way will triumph in the end. There is nothing inherently wrong with using
myths to further your own ends. All heroquesters do this.

Simon Hibbs

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