Divine identities

From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_bigfoot.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:26:53 +1200

Joerg Baumgartner:

>Me>The locations of Orlanth on the
> >God plane are radically different from Shargash's locations.
>So is the Storm Village from Ernalda's Earth Palace for the

Which is only one of the places that one can find Orlanth. The test is whether Shargash is found in the same places and he isn't.

>Otherwise this would be a "proof" that Orlanth's Hall is in the
>Underworld "since it's next to Ernalda's Palace".

Ernalda's place is not in the Underworld. The Underworld lies beneath Daleel and shares some lands in common.

> >Furthermore the equation Orlanth = Shargash really only appears
> >as a Dara Happan slur rather than an authentic example of
> >mythological confusion.

>(A slur to whom, by the way?)

Both the Orlanthi and the Shargashi, I should imagine.


> >Different deities, as explained in digests passim. Can
> >also use the different places on the Godplane as evidence.

>All three of them are candidates for Rebellus Terminus. Tolat has no
>such connection known to me, ZZ does.

Rebellus Terminus has been identified as Orlanth (GRAY p87), not Shargash and the identification is repeated in the myth of Shargash the Destroyer (that was once up at www.glorantha.com). Zorak has two roles, neither of which are comparable to Rebellus Terminus: the first is the murder of Flamal while the second is the conquest of fire but not the fire god's murder.

Although Tolat has no known connections, that is largely a function of our ignorance about Tolat's myths rather than evidence that Tolat has no connections.

>Zorak Zoran/Shargash ?

Zorak Zoran is a spirit, Shargash is a god (although Underworld deities are meant to be able to change otherworlds easily, I am as yet unsure how easy this is). More importantly Zorak Zoran's rune is given in the Glorantha: Intro and look nothing like Shargash's. Shargash also knows Zorak Zoran as a foe (the Cruel God) in the myth of Shargash the Destroyer.

>Or possibly Zolan Zubar/Shargash

You might have a possibility here.

>My main contention is the earth/fire big one.


Turos and Solf actually have different runes from Lodril and so are probably different from him and each other. Veskarthen has Lodril's rune (and so probably is him) but ViSaruDaran has a triangle based rune (assuming this is the fire mountain rune - Entekosiad p8 - but then Turos's rune would logically be the rune for Gestinus Mountain on the basis of Entekosiad p44).

But since aspects do have different runes from their great gods (cf the runes of Orlanth's aspects versus Great Orlanth in TR), they can still be related. A possibility might be:

Great God: Lodril.
Volcano Aspect: ViSauruDaran.
Common Man Aspect: Turos
Rebel Aspect: Monster Man.

>Monster Man/Deshkorgos

Monster Man is Deshkorgos. Valare speculates about Derdromus, Ganesataurus and Deshkorgos being the same. This is stated as being disproved in the Entekosiad p17 footnote 4, but that looks a bit garbled to me - I think it should read that Derdromus is the same as Deshkorgos but both are not Ganesataurus.


Different deities and runes. Mohenjar is earth orientated while Calyz is a combination of sky and earth.

>Balumbasta/Lodril/<the almost-quenched origin for the walls of Sog City
>I forgot>/<whatever husband for Ashgortek the trolls have>

Balumbasta is not Lodril as they have different runes (rather than the dot, Balumbasta has an inverted V which he shares with Shargash). Also Balumbasta is a great spirit whereas Lodril is a god. Ladaral and Lodril are the same AFAIK.


I'd say Turos and Genert are different entities since they reside in different worlds. The same is probably true for Gerendetho if the Kostaddi are theistic.

> >(Ernalda has the Square earth rune while Oria has an upside
> >down Triangle, inverse mountain, with a line through it)

>To be blunt: pubic lips.

No. Carmanos has a very similar rune (glorantha: intro p126) and I'll hate to see the Carmanian reaction if they heard the above derivation. Especially since a rather twisted explanation could easily be found to explain why the rune is dark on one side and not the other...

IMO the mountain rune symbolizes the male element while its upside down form represents females (although Denegoria Glorantha: Intro p126 inverts Oria's rune to become a fighting goddess). Since the same bar appears within the Moon Rune, I'm inclined to interpret it as Balance or perhaps even Division (for the Carmanians).

> >Ernalda is an Earth Goddess while Dendara is an atmospheric goddess.

>That's not too clear. Ernalda/Entekos shares Earth and Lower Heavens.
>Her Dara Happan story is quite similar to that of Avarnia - an earth
>goddess lifted into the sky by help of her husband.

I haven't seen a myth where Ernalda shares the Lower Heavens and there's nothing in the Dara Happan myth that indicates that she is an earth goddess (since both Molanni and Uleria also appear in the same contest).

> >Yelmalio and Elmal have different locations on the godplane
> >and different runes.

>Since Monrogh. Before it was possible to worship Yelmalio as Elmal.

I don't think so.

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