Re: Divine identities: Balumbasta/Lodril

From: Alex Ferguson <abf_at_cs.ucc.ie>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 21:48:44 +0100 (BST)


Chris Lemens:
> So, your definition of a "defiant" entity is one that
> is not well described by any of the four world
> systems?

Or "well-"described by more than one of them, perhaps. (But therefore, not completely.)

> Perhaps "undifferentiated" would be a better word here?

Not sure I like that one much either! (I won't say "mixed", as Greg or Steve Martin might throw rocks at me. Perhaps "boundary". Apart from cases like the dragons, who seem to sort of sit on all the boundaries at once.)

> Hypo: Man-and-a-half on the Praxian plaines runs into
> a Lodril worshipper from the Empire. Stand-off ensues
> as each tries to determine the other's intent. Lodril
> worshipper casts flaming-spear-type spell on his
> spear, to deter the 1.5man. Intrigued by the use of
> his Great Spirit's trademark spell, the 1.5man grounds
> his spear and they talk. What do they discover? What
> otherside adventures might they jointly embark upon?

Firstly I'm forced to suggest that use of the decimal system is likely a capital offence among the Agimori. "We tried that already." [*infractor is staked out in the sun*] But an interesting scene...

> > Are we trying to "connect up" (apparently different)
> > places on the Other Side?
>
> Great question. It really goes to the origin. Can
> thay both visit the same events? Can they arrive as
> part of the same ceremony? Will they see each other
> if they arrive from separate ceremonies? Will the
> Man-and-a-half discover that, for some time,
> Balumbasta also served as Kendamalanar's footstool?
> Will the Lodril worshipper discover that Lodril
> created the Agimori?

I think they'll struggle to see these events in the same way. They have radically different _practices_, for one thing; even supposing that they are going to some place(s) on the o/s which "at some deep level" are the "same" (they're each manifestations of some yet-higher-plane common point, let's say), then the very fact of having journeyed by different means will colour their perceptions strongly. If the Lodril guy wants to see that the Balumbastist sees, he'll have to try and ape what the latter _does_, which for him is a radically different (in HW terms, "alien") practice. It's not the way he's attuned to the cosmos. (Hence the low-flying -20's.) (I think even within a given "system", the effect is roughly the same, just of lesser magnitude.)

> > Are we trying to work out if initiation to one
> > entity gives one an "in" to the other?
>
> Assuming that you mean "Does initiation into one
> constitute initiation into the other?", I'd presume
> not in the hypo because this is primarily an issue of
> how religion is practiced.

Not necessarily anything that strong; more like: does it give you _some_ degree of magical insight into the other.

> A further twist is whether they can figure out how to
> mimic each others magical abilities. Can the 1.5man
> more easily discover a Balumbasta spirit that lets him
> perform some Lodril feat that he saw? How much more
> easily?

This would be very hard. You'd need to be super-Arkat, I reckon. But maybe not impossible...

> > Are we trying to discern cultural viewpoints?
>
> At least common myths.

I was thinking of viewpoints as to whether they _were_ the same being or not, in myth, or in general cultural belief.

> > Or identify common physical manifestations?
>
> Yes, whatever that means.

That's a fairly easy one: Elmal and Yelm have the same "physical" manifestation -- though that's pushing the bounds of "physical", clearly: the visible sky is really a part of, or emanation from, the other world. Orlanth and the Storm Bull have different physical manifestations (other than in the broadest sense of Orlanth being _all_ wind).

> > Are we playing Glorantha, the God Sim, in which
> > we want to quantify the amount of collateral
> > worship that "flows" between the two?
>
> No, but that would be a fun game, too.

I don't doubt it. Someone'll have to write it sometime... (Maybe using the Civ "engine"?)

Seeyas,
Alex.


Powered by hypermail