> Joerg Baumgartner:
> >I agree - if anything, Turos is more of the Great God than DHan Lodril
> >because he epitomizes an entire culture and not just one social (or
> >celestial) strata.
> Turos cannot be "more of" the Great God than Lodril. Either he
> is the Great God of his element or he isn't.
I wasn't talking about being Great God of his element (whichever that would be) but of his realm (which is fiery underworld and earth, with sky connections and some remaining sky presence, plus (an integration of?) some sort of disorder).
> Secondly Turos does
> not epitomize a whole culture any more than non-great Odayla does
> for the Sylilans.
The pre-Lunar Odayla of Sylila may not offer a Great God worship, but covers all of known Heortling Odayla stuff plus a whole lot of Heortling Orlanth stuff, plus a strong celestial presence later usurped or conquered by the Red Goddess. The Great God behind Odayla may be covered by Orlanth.
But then a cultural deity doesn't need to be (an "independent aspect" of) a Great God. In case of Turos, however, there comes a strong portion of "Creator" god who made or shaped almost half of the universe, and this is an argument for his "Great God" status.
>>I guess Lodril gets the honours [as Great God] because of the >>God Learners' familiarity with Ladaral of Sog City fame and a >>stunning similarity of names. They cannot have had much exposure >>to DHan Lodril, really...
> Where do the God Learners consider Lodril a Great God? Lodril
> is named as a Great God on the basis of Glorantha: Intro p98,
> not because of any God Learner scheme.
DHan Lodril gets the honours of being "the volcanoe god" in God Learner monomyth. Whether the God Learners classified him as Great God or not doesn't concern me that much, but I contest his primacy as volcano god.
> > > (We could also reopen the
> > > original bunfight as to whether Lodril is a "Greater God" in the
> > > RQ3 sense, aka whether this is a core rune/high power of Glorantha...)
> >Since we cannot agree upon the number or membership of those high
> >powers, mostly a moot point. The Entekosiad names Rashorana, Turos and
> >Uleria in the same breath, indicating that there are seven, later nine
> >High Powers (Daxdarius and Natha joining). Dara Happa knows ten Glorantay.
> Arguing about the membership of the Celestial Court (or equivalent)
> is not the same thing as arguing about the name and number of the
> Great Gods.
Belonging to the Celestial Court is something of an automatic membership in the circle of Great Gods, as far as I am concerned. There are other ways to enter, but if you were there and you haven't lost out too much, you're in. Great Gods in this context meaning theistically worshipped transcendent entities.
> The Pelandan High Gods are not equivalent of the
> Celestial Court overseeing Creation but the equivalent of the Storm
> Tribe as gods being for people to worship.
That's KetTuros and the various lesser forms of all of the Pelandan High Gods. Those upon the Mountain are the distant ones, the ones who transcended.
Modern worship may differ.
> The ten Glorantay are equivalent to the Celestial Court hence
> irrelevant to the issue of Great Gods.
In that case, consider this discussion ended, since we're talking different issues under the heading "Great Gods".
> In the
> Orlanthi Creation Myth (KoS p54), the first gods were of
> three types: the Council of Pairs, the Elemental Deities
> and the Elder Gods. All these make up the Celestial Court.
With the Elder Gods including all kind of non-theist realm entities.
End of The Glorantha Digest V8 #545
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