Sorry for the apostrophes that got converted to ugly code, and thank you Nils for the 'comment' :-)
Peter Metcalfe says:
I like the idea that the House of Errinoru suppressed Miirdek's tradition of kingship. This fits in nicely.
me:
>>Elamle-ata gives no magic, for she has disappeared forever and everyone
>>knows she will never come back again (2).
>I don't think this follows. People can still disappear and be called upon
>for magic/miracles/aid. Jesus is the most obvious example in the RW.
Jesus sort of ascended to heaven/godhood, so he didn't really disappear the way I meant. I think Elamle-ata as an entity capable of aiding people is lost forever, unlike normal apotheosis. At least for the humans, though the elves may have known more (and have forgotten it, or not).
Now I recognize it's purposefully looking for something unusual, but she's one of my pet heroes :-)
>It's much simpler to make her magic equal to the Oath of Friendship between
>Humans and Elves.
Maybe she became the Oath. Currently I don't think any rules device is necessary to represent the Oath's effects, other than a high resistance for whomever tries to break it, and plenty of bad omens so that they are immediately outcast. Such (very few) outcasts go to Flanch where they're welcome.
Also, it doesn't only bind the people and the elves, but also the petty spirits they worship, since they are part of the family/clan/city/forest. Incidentally the Elamlites don't casually worship entities from outside the Oath IMO, except in their great ceremonies to the high gods.
>>I think each of the 592 parts of the Oath of Elamle refers to a load of
>>services the humans must pay the embyli,
>The oath is a two-way relationship, I think.
Like the two-way relationship one has with one's landlord? I think the humans are paying for the land. Notably they may have to yield part of their souls to the forest (replacing an arm and a leg in Bayahote, or becoming plants in Olyn).
>While it could be interpreted as a 592 part treaty, I feel this is
>unrealistic for the Embyli are one of the last people in glorantha who
>would negotiate detailed treaties.
In Missing Lands, the Elamlite cities seem to abide by different versions of the Oath. Also the following does not appear in the Missing Lands writeup but caught my attention in Sandy's summary:
"..but Elamle-ata came to the Council and asked for mercy. She then went everywhere in the land, asking every Council what they would require of the humans in order to permit them to stay."
The Great Tree overspirit would then "know" all of the individual councils' requirements.
>Since 592 is clearly highlighted in the text, I think it refers to the
>minimum number of people required to establish a community under the oath
>(x humans and y elves).
It's possible yes. It would avoid having to maintain a fixed number of 592 communities through three ages.
Thanks for the suggestions on Olyn. They're gladly adopted.
>The Full Citizens are also Aldryami (Awakened Trees) and so the local
>humans must support them as part of the Oath of Elamle.
Maybe feeding the runners and awakened animals.
>Well, nobody can fight the Mother of Monsters and nobody tries to. Rather
>they just stay out of her way and deal with her sprogs. I'm not too sure
>what world improvement has to do with this.
Nobody tries to fight the Mom, nobody thinks she can be fought, but it doesn't mean she can't be done away with by some heroes with a lot of support.
I suppose all these attempts are possible, and most will fail: a Very big hole with Very big spikes, doing Kimotian Landscape Magic(tm), drying the Wendo marsh and letting her go to Kimos (she'll turn back despite this), find the Entity that mates with her and kill it (provided it exists and isn't worse), build a fort on her top and start digging into her until you reach her vitals or get dissolved by chaos ooze, deal 200 critical strikes to her head, and the Dune option, ride her and steer her off her current road (maybe she floats?). Find where she comes from would be a good start, because there's a chance you can send her back there.
As for world improvement, I think getting rid of her is number one in the list of things that would terribly improve the world (at least for the Elamle folks).
Here's another possibility. When the plague destroyed the House of Errinoru, the current Novarooplia forest was threatened with extinction (the Gargulia in Onlaks are stated to be a new growth). Because of this the Oath began to flicker out. The humans were forced to boost it, replacing the missing forest with parts of their own souls and bodies, and this hasn't changed since, because everyone mistakenly thinks it's part of the Oath. Hence the Bayahote and Olyn customs, which (and other similar customs in other places).
This unfortunately gets rid of the hazy "Elamle-ata already gave it" element, unless she gave herself away to the elf forest and thus disappeared, from the human pov. Maybe the embyli used to have a Keeper of Elamle on their great council, before the Second Age turmoil.
Cheers,
Jerome
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