>JB> >Fact is that the greatness of gods has changed before, and will
> > >again.
> > But not through the actions of ordinary mortals or communities -
> > Arachne Solara usually gets the blame for changing gods. I am
> > extremely dubious that an army of heroquesters could change the
> > gods and note that all previous attempts to do so have been
> > failures.
>I disagree very strongly with this. The name of the game is Hero Wars,
>and it's about ordinary mortals becoming Heroes and changing the cosmos
>through their actions. In fact, last time we were discussing divine
>mutability, Greg denied that the gods can change on their own, and
>hinted quite strongly that the action of mortal Heroes is the
>_only_ thing that can change them.
And this is relevant to the changing of _Great_ Gods, how? I know I didn't say great in the paragraph that you are criticizing but it is responding to Joerg's statement.
>There are also many HW plots
>and projects that are geared to accomplish similar designs.
>The Lunar Empire's struggle against Orlanth for another example.
Which has already been discussed and dealt with on this far too long thread many weeks ago.
> > For the Lunars to control Orlanth would
> > require them to dominate Orlanth on the Great Gods plane, rather
> > than wrest a mere subcult away from him.
>Are the Lunars an exception to your statement that the actions
>of ordinary mortals or communities cannot cause such changes ?
No. I'm just pointing out what it would take to change Orlanth. That the impact of such changes would still be world-threatening.
> > No, I don't think subcults can be morphed into aspects. One can
> > worship a god as a subcult (like Redayla for Elmal or Rigsdal
> > for a number of gods). But one can't turn Vanorlanth (or other
> > subcult manifestations of Orlanth) into an aspect of him.
>Why not ? I'm not saying that it would be an easy task ; Ernalda
>was once a mere handmaiden in the house of Yelm, but now she has a
>Queen Aspect.
This was well before the Cosmic Compromise that fixed the Gods within the Cosmos, and upon which basis I am grounding my statements about the immutability of the Great Gods - before that time, my arguments do not apply.
A trivial nitpick would be that Ernalda's Queen status comes from her being the leading goddess of the Earth Tribe. This status she manifested during the Golden Age when all her tribe were handmaidens of the Emperor.
>Clearly, new Aspects _can_ come into existence
>(but only through the action of mortals and their societies),
>and it seems clear that if a relevant subcult already exists
>that this would be a very good basis for such.
I have yet to see any example of a new aspect for a pre-existing great god coming into existence in historical times. The aspects of Orlanth are the same as they were in the God Learner times for example.
Powered by hypermail