Me:
>
> >I have been fascinated by the Cycles of Imtherian Mythology (but I don't
> >know how much you have changed / adopted to other area contributers for
> >making Unified Nexus of many cultures after publishing NLG and GS made
list
> >of Experts, but I am sure that certainly Argrath will move northward
after
> >taking care of Tarsh Storm betrayers in HW Schedule.)
>
Harald Smith:
> Not much change per se. Imther is a backwater culture, very conservative,
> and has had little outside influence. In many ways it represents what you
> might have seen in Vanch in the late 2nd age plus some Lunar influence.
> What has changed is my understanding of the cult of Khelmal, which is a
mask
> of the Vanchite deity Tunoral.
Racoon God? Scheme of Imther is very similar to somewhere of North or Middle
America before Christopher Columbus...
I know Animism isn't equal to Hsunchen...but many Middle Peloria Culture
conceives "primitive" Totem Worship between Praxian Style and Hsunchen
"Hunter-Gatherer" like Votanki in Balazar....in Old Avalonhill Genertela
Box.
AFAIK, Balazar in 2nd Age induced "Tharkantus Yelmalio" to Elder Wild, what
is the connection between Khelmal and EWF Mercenaries? Recently GS put on
History of EWF in
Issaries Site....Sun Dome Templers in this document keep their tradition to
3rd Age?
Harald:
> Connection between Vanch and Imther is not so problematic--they share the
> same basic deities, but Vanch has had more layering of other outside
> influence over time whereas Imther has had more layering by retreating
> "conservative" Vanchites (who flee into the hills).
>
>
Me:
> > Yelmalio is in a sense sideeffect of incompatibity of these Two Cultures
> >which added by Nysalor as a sort of EWF, High Storm Tarumath, etc...
>
Harald:
> Yelmalio, previously known as Daysenereus (1st Age Nysalor revelation) and
> Tharkantus (2nd Age resurrection), is a light-oriented culture set in the
> barbarian lands. It remains isolated in its Sun Dome Temples.
>
Me:
> > Heliakal and Khelmal, I can pick up Many Hill of Gold Mythology
>
> Many folks have a Hill of Gold mythology--witness the assorted
> stories/viewpoints published in Enclosure, I believe. Heliakal is a solar
> ruler of Saird who was defeated by Orlanth and crushed by the Winter
God--he
> has no worship, though Vanchites may cheerfully tell Yelmalians that this
is
> who they really worship. Khelmal is a mask of Tunoral, the primary
Vanchite
> deity (related to the raccoon god and known to most surrounding cultures
as
> a thief, though Vanchites know he is a survivor).
>
In Vanch Mythology of Enclosure 2, Tunoral was subservient to Heliacal as
Raccoon (?) God, and other two were Yotelap the Fox (He betrayed as Yurmalio
in Imther Story) and Sarval the Possum play Dead (in contrary, Heliacal in
Imther was subservient to Khelmal and died.) (I was deceived by the
illustration Image of O'conner, It seems all are Dogs!)If I understand
correctly, both Vanchite and Imtherian compete with other their supremacy
with own myth... American....What is
your image in Jannisor and his surroundings....?
I see the distribution map of Hsunchens in Trotsky's Site and cannot find
any hints of their existence in Peloria, but what about more older age? Do
you know about it?
FREX,
Lotari = Raccoon Hsunchens (Martin Crim's List....) Peloria maybe is not so
civilized in older age as Balazar.
Andrew Behan (Brolia) and Oliver Bernuetz (Balazar) keep Good Website for
Understanding Neighborhood Area.
> >I don't know how much you harmonized these ideas which written by others
> ...
>
> A lot of work and correspondence has gone into the development of Southern
> Peloria/Saird to pull in the Orlanthi and Dara Happan influences. Thus,
> Holay is an Orlanthi culture where Orlanth has not been seen in at least a
> century and Lunar influence is strong. Sylila is an Orlanth/Odaylan
culture
> where Odayla was tamed and entered the Lunar empire, though the Sky Bear
may
> well run free again. Saird is a loose term that describes either a large
> area including all of Holay, Sylila, and Vanch (as at the end of the 2nd
Age
> when the Dog Kings ruled and drove out the EWF) or a non-existent state or
a
> stretch of land along the Black Eel river around Mirin's Cross or a
kingdom
> to be resurrected. Vanch is a patchwork land where the locals have taken
> bits and pieces of many cultures and woven them into their unique culture.
>
Jajagapa / Khelmal =Anubis / Osiris?
> > As far as I have read NLG, I cannot find mentioning about Jajagappa,
>
> The majority of "discoveries" regarding Jajagappa have occurred over the
> last several years, well after my earlier Imtherian work. He is mostly
> worshipped by the dog folk (the Jajalarings) who live mostly in Holay
(where
> they exist as thralls in typical Orlanthi-style clans, parts of thrall
clans
> serving other clans, or occasional separate communities), southern Vanch
> (again as thralls or integrated in Vanchite villages), some large cities
> such as Mirin's Cross and Hortugarth, or as scattered hunters across much
of
> Peloria (appearing as kennel masters in DH or even Carmania).
>
> >(it appeared in Redline History Paragraph: Illustration of Lunar Vase. I
> see in
> Jajagappa has similarity to Egyptian Death God Anubis: as Greek Hermes for
> the Role of Psychopomp
>
> Jajagappa is the dog father, a psychopomp (who many fear since he can drag
> those dying without protection of deities to hell), and a great fighter in
> the heavens (the Lost Rocks are the Lost Pack of Jajagappa--forever
fighting
> chaos in the skies).
>
> > Enclosure 2 involved some articles about
> Geography of Saird and Lose of Heliakal, many subordinate dog gods to
> Heliakal...but NLG wrote Heliacal as a subordinate of Imtherian Khelmal. I
> don't know how I should understand it. What is Tunoral?
>
> The dogs were loyal to Reladiva, the land goddess of Southern Peloria.
They
> often aided her consorts (such as Heliakal), but served her first, and
then
> when she failed, too, they found their own path and were rallied to life
by
> Jajagappa.
>
> Heliakal is subservient to Khelmal because Khelmal saved the only
surviving
> part of Heliakal--his shield of light (which occasionally changes form
over
> time, depending on which Khelmal hero succeeds in their Hill of Gold
quest).
> Khelmal is Tunoral (or a mask of his). Khelmal is also called the Bearer
of
> Hope, and was the mask of Tunoral "discovered" in the late 2nd Age. Other
> known masks are Tunoral the Survivor and Kemel the Dutiful (the first was
> the Dawn Age mask, the second "discovered" in the late 1st Age to save the
> culture from being overrun by DH). Other masks exist in Vanch, though I
> believe that Kemel was revived following the defeat by the Lunars.
>
Me:
> >Deluge of Anaxial, Sshorga: is another matter for analyzing (I don't know
>> what is "Earthquake Lake" (Excuse me, I have only Japanese Version Gods
of
>> Glorantha Cult Book) which existed in Flood, is it linked to Elf Sea?)
>
Harald:
> Most of Peloria was invaded by water deities in the Gods Age and covered
by
> water (i.e. Anaxial's Flood in DH terms; the battles of Orlanth with the
> Blue Dragon in Orlanthi myth). All cultures of southern Peloria describe
> how they survived this period (the Imtherians climbed to the highest
> mountain tops to turn the waters back; the dogs learned to swim; the
> Vanchites stole powers from the water gods, etc).
>
Me:
> >Horse Rider Beren and Hyaloring: Saird is very confused Area. AFAIK, 1st
>> Age
>> Rastalulf Saga and Vingkotling certainly lived in the near of Hill of
Gold
> <as traditional "Orlanthi",
>
> The Berenethtelli lands were the lands south and east of the Oslir/Black
Eel
> confluence--the heart of present day Holay.
>
> >Goddess of Saird: Ernalda (GROY wrote about Ernalda in Saird) is another
> >important source for the proof of strong influence of Storm Barbarians.
And
> >later, EWF and a sort of Kynnelfing Alliance.
>
Harald:
> Ernalda came from "Saird" means that her influence is strong in the
Holayan
> lands which are a center of northern Orlanthi activity, including EWF and
> Kynnelfing.
>
> > I find difficulty watching about these back-and-forth.
>
> It is the Crossroads of Cultures, if you will, and yes, there is a lot of
> back and forth here.
>
> >And I guess it is one of Greg Stafford Secret? Elf Sea is Origin of Horse
> Pentan Riders: I think the article of "Ancestors of the Lenshi Kings
(1998):
> Hurfor and the Starlight Tribe" hinted this origin. As if they were RW
> Scythians who lived near of Caspian Sea. Maybe Berenethtelli, Pelandan
> Lenshi, Jenarong Dynasty and Hyaloring in GROY are all descendants from
that
> Area.
>
Harald:
> I think the Arcos Valley, more than the Elf Sea, is a horse rider area.
>
recently, glorantha-digest heavily wrote about Horse Riders, and I saw a Greg's squibble in the Issaries Office.
> > Dwarves in Imther lived from Unknown Old Age, even the existence of
> >propaganda of
> >Declaration of Emperor Khordavu. (I permitted they lived in Imther.)
>
> I believe that the Imther Mountains are considered by dwarves to be one of
> the "legs" of the Spike.
>
Me:
> >And I searched with Internet for: Daniel Boone the model of Jannisor for
> >you. As a decadent heir of long history, I feel more sympathy to Dara
> >Happans than your Image of this "Noble Barbarian", but I like much your
idea
> >about his adventures. If Jannisor was still revered by Imtherians even
under
> >suppression of Lunars, maybe death of Royal Lines are caused by Lunars...
>
Harald:
> There are certainly those amongst the Imtherians who wish for Jannisor's
> return. However, the Lunars most likely have him locked up in one of
their
> "hells".
>
> Harald
>
Would you explain about these Imtherian Titles and Archtype: Marl and Marax?
Like Dara Happan Noble? Or Orlanthi Style Thane?
Thank you for your involvement.
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