EWF

From: Peter Larsen <plarsen_at_mail.utexas.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 16:50:00 -0600


Jerome of Bwbfc_at_aol.com says:

>Peter Larsen:
>> What the Dragons thought, I have no idea. They seem to have
>> killed the sincere and cynical pretty much equally.
>
>I think that the EWF eventually being corrupt, having internal conflicts and
>"misusing draconic secrets" is an entirely human interpretation of its
>downfall, which leaves the dragonewts out of that concern. We don't know what
>their reasons were for murdering the leaders of the EWF with Blue Moon
>Assassins.

        OK, fair enough, although "the EWF terminally missed the point" is a potential reason.

>Why would a dragonewt use a Blue Moon Assassin? There must be a
>dragon-logical reason.

        The Blue Moon is associated with secrets and guarding/recovering secret knowledge; maybe that's why -- they were well suited to finding and eliminating people with draconic secrets. Many Blue Moon worshippers are UZ who lacked any sympathy to the largely-human EWF.

>For what it's worth, maybe they wanted to check
>whether the chosen ones would be correctly reborn in the egg to begin a true
>Draconic Ascension. And perhaps the plan was successful: the dead leaders of
>the EWF are now dragonewts slowly climbing up the stages of their life cycle.
>They remember Dragonkill, when they participated in the Feast of Victory.

        Heh. There's an idea I hadn't considered....

Peter Metcalfe says:

>Peter Larsen
>
>>On the other
>>hand, it's clear that something went wrong with the EWF toward the
>>end; a sort of moral rot set in.
>
>Something did go wrong with the EWF but to claim it was the
>result of a "moral rot" is still wrong IMO. The record only
>shows the EWF being thrown back by numerous revolts and
>battlefield defeats rather than any internal decay (would
>you claim the Byzantine Empire fell because of internal
>decay?)

        Can't speak about Byzantiumwith any confidence. The Egyptian Empire in the Middle Kingdon declined because Akhenaten was more interested in religious than political matters, though. I'm sure that decline was attributed to "moral failings" by some of his contemporaries.

> >Part of this was probably due to
>>misunderstandings of draconic teachings -- the EWF, after all, did
>>not seem to produce too many complete successes (Obduren the Flyer is
>>the only one I know for sure actually reached the ultimate goal of
>>escape from the transient world),
>
>There were a lot more transcendees than just Obduren the Flyer. The
>Glorantha Book states:

        Heh. Well now I know more.

> >As a
>>whole, however, it seems likely that the leadership of the EWF at
>>some point stopped pursuing the Draconic Absolute and began to rule
>>for its own sake. That's what I meant by cynical.
>
>I do not believe that they ever reached this point or even were
>close to it. The conquest of Dara Happa was essential for their
>grand plan of awakening the Grand Dragon yet it only lasted thirty
>- -five odd years. Are we to believe that while the EWF was victorious
>in conquering Dara Happa, it was still true to its founding aims
>while barely a generation later, it had sunk to corruption and
>depravity to such an extent that it was incapable of suppressing
>revolts?

        Unless the conquest of Dara Happa was done for the sake of conquest and justified by appealing to grand plans. Just because they are quoting scripture doesn't mean they are honest about it. Maybe the rot set in earlier -- the most dedicated and sincere EWF mystics tended to escape the transient world leaving power in the hands of those who couldn't or wouldn't advance, and the grand plan bogged down in conquest and material concerns.

>An alternative way of looking at the alleged decadence and downfall
>of the EWF might be this. The Forwards Faction expended most of
>their spiritual energies in hastening the coming of the grand
>dragon. Their popular support began to dwindle due to difference
>between the exalted nature of the leaders and the little improvement
>in the nature of the masses.

        OK, that's a fair interpretation and at least as good an approach as my "corrupt" one. As a matter of fact, we are probably wasting time looking for a "single cause," since they happen pretty infrequently in RW history. Isn't it likely that there were a bundle of reasons? The best minds and spirits leaving the transient world or, at least, losing interest in governing? The growing gulf between the regular Orlanthi and the mystics? Possible Dragon plots benevolent or not? Godlearner and Only Old One and Kralori plots? Unforseen strains in creating a "mystic empire" that still needed to address the physical needs and desires of an Empire? and so on.

> >I'll agree with you that the "damning" differences were probably a
>>lot more subtle than I suggested (and possibly not clearly
>>understandable to anyone except a fairly advanced draconic mystic),
>>but I believe they were significant. Significant enough to prevent
>>the Kralori from being eaten for a lot longer than the EWF managed.
>
>Considering that the EWF had instruction from Godunya, I don't
>see how the EWF can be said to have missed the plot entirely.
>They met their end through being stabbed in the back by their
>supposed allies and not through an intrinsic flaw of their
>philosophy.

        The EWF had instruction from Godunya? I thought that was Kralori propaganda. Since the EWF precedes Godunya by a century or more, he can't have been an instigator of the EWF, can he?

        So, if the Dragons just stabbed the EWF in the back, why did they do it?

Peter Larsen
- --


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