Mythology of Vanch

Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:12:33 +0900

From HW Mailing List
>Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:00:07 -0500
> From: "Meints, Richard (R.J.)" <>
>Subject: Gloranthan New Years Resolution

>It will be a banner year for publishing, as the
>following things are on the horizon for 2002:

>Barbarian Adventures
>Hero's Book
>Orlanth is Dead
>Lunar Imperial Handbook
>Hero Wars 2nd edition
>UZ: The Trolls of Glorantha
>Unspoken Word 2 (and probably 3)
>Tradetalk 10 and 11 (at least)
>Legacy of Pavis (another P&BR Companion)
>Ye Book of Tentacles IV
>Tales 20
>Classics Vol. III: Cult Compendium
>Classics Vol. IV: Borderlands and Plunder

By the way, what occured to Tales #20 and Lismelder Scenario after the um...apotheosis of
David Hall?

Gods of Saird:
Earth Goddesses
*Ernalda (Orlanthi both for Heortling and Alakoring?): In GROY, Greg said Ernalda was once Sairdite Great Goddess (I don't what the difference between Oria and Ernalda, and local other Earth Goddesses merely a lingustical difference of title or magic provided, applied type of crop, etc...), maybe both of Nealda and Reladiva were her minor mask of her or Oria, and many local goddesses complicated the matter to difficult.

*Oria (Plain) and Biselenslib (Marsh) (Pelorians surrounded Area of Dara Happa) In Dara Happan and Lunar Rule, Lodril is applied to these Goddesses as a husband because he is usually obedient to elder brother. Shargash is not good for Lunar Empire for their fanatical attitude.

*Reladiva and Nealda (Vanch and Imther) Another Local Earth Goddess to Vanch and Imther, though maybe both of them are Mask of Ernalda. The God named Yelmalio has a religious center in the Hill of Gold in Saird, and usually one mask of him occupies the role of her husband (In Ancient Vingkotling Age or EWF age, Beren the Rider (Horse Riders?) occupied the role of their husband?), I don't know how much Today's religious attitude of Lunar Authority goes between Mascline and Feminine. Holay Province is known for topped by Queens. Other Provincial Area like Vanch or Imther are different from Sylila.

*Heliakal (aka Heliacal) (Vanch, Dead God) There is no one who worship him in Modern Age since his death in Lesser Darkness (Harald Smith), and for his death consequences to make the land goddess Reladiva into sterile. Maybe Hwarin or other heroes who want to recover some of ancient fertility of this land try to HQ and succeeded. (Hwarin was identified with Reladiva) But maybe enemies did reversely and hindered the effect. Anyway, Hill of Gold is Great Religious Place for many races and societies of Surrounding Area (even for people apart from Vanch like Talastari (Hill of Victory) or Dara Happans (Place of the Orb of the Eye.) But my view about the role of Yelmalio in the Mythology is rather the martyr, scapegoat, or trickster than hero or warrior, and I think Yelmalio went voluntarily to Death for the World as Christ went to the hill of Golgotha.

*Tunoral (Vanch) Raccoon God, Harald Smith said recently he changed his idea to more Unified Mythology, and both of Tunoral and Khelmal were subservient God of Heliacal in the Unified Myth of Hill of Gold Quest. The worshippers of both areas, Vanch and Imther insist their own god only inherited true power of Heliacal. But I don't know enough about their lists of their gods and the system of Sun Dome Templars, as you know, in 2nd Age, Balazar firstly recovered the worship of Tharkantus after the destruction of Nysalor and Deyseneras and went to Balazar...Sun Dome Templars were subservient to EWF (I think it was frigid alliance except some exceptions like in Pavis and the mercenaries of Arinsor, because always Yelmalions showed preference to Dara Happan Yelmic System where they contact to Orlanthi...) And I think the inhabitants of Vanch are rather primitive hunters (though much more civilised than Balazarings) and Tunoral is God of um, Thieves for other Area Inhabitants on the contrary to the status of other "Yelmalions" Hoplite Mercenaries.

*Khelmal (Imther) God of Sun Dome Temple? in Imther, I don't know how Harald adopted the Images of New Lolon Gospel to Official Unified Setting, he used many components of Greeks and Roman picture for describing Imtherian Cycles of Myth. (Maybe all of these influence are Pelandan, Lunar, or missing ring of Mythic World before History?) NLG taught me much similarity of natural scheme of Imther similar to Harald's native land, so Racoons and Opossums live in the wilderness of Imther and Vanch. I tried to induce the image of Ancient Egypt to this concept. (And confusing it more...)

Other Great Gods
*Odayla (Sylila?) Great Bear, in some areas of Past Orlanthi area this god superceded the role of unruly Orlanth, as in Lunar Mythology, Rufelza tamed the Sky Bear, and he seems to have been brother of Orlanth rather than son or other subservient status even in thrived Dynasties of Sairdite Dragonslayers, (three brothers divided the world) I don't know how far Alakoring reached to the north before he was killed by Tobosta, but it seems most of (all of?) Orlanthi to the north of Tarsh are called as Alakorings even for Modern Age, maybe Odayla took the many roles of Orlanth aside from his main role as Hunter God in Lunar Empire.

*Jajagappa (Vanch and Imther) (and Annara Gor?) He the Doghead God first appeared in Redline History in illustration of Lunar Base which describes Jannisor's attack to Glamour. And Harald said he decided Jajagappa is the god of Jannisor, as the God of Psychopomp who gathers the souls of Dead by his net. I think Jajagappa is much similar to Egyptian Mythology Anubis the Judge of Dead, (he is the illegitimate child between Osiris and Nephytis the wife of Set in Egyptian Myth...) I don't know why Harald adopted it to Jannisor's God, but I think maybe it is the one aspect of conflict between Orlantio and Khelmal in Imtherian Mythology. Read about Jannisor.

*Arahar, Teliska (Imther...Yuthuppa?) Harald adopted many of old resources in Wyrm's Footnotes which abandoned by Greg who tried to write down Dara Happa more complicated, and the Polaris and Goddess of Dance (who was the daughter of Harana Ilor and Larnsti) became Gods of Imther in Harald's scheme, I think his effort is good at least while his intention is limited in isolated mountainous area of Imther, but I don't know how much neighborhood areas adopt Imtherian Pantheon.

*Lightfore Laragar and Lightbringers (Imther) I don't know how Harald induced the relationship between Cosmic Compromise and Orlanthi Mythology in original Greg's idea to his area. Many Lightbringer Mythologies are created after Greg firstly wrote about Elmal aside from the mythology of Seven Mothers, for example, Pelandan Lightfore Idojartos receives worship as Psychopomp. I don't know how each of cultures stress "why Sun did return to us" myth. Maybe some cultures think the Sun volutarily returned to the Sky.

*Entekos (Molanni?) and Doburdun (Pelanda) In Modern Lunar Empire, it seems Lunar Provincial Policy uses this Pelandan Pantheon as substitute of Orlanth worship aside from Seven Mothers, maybe it is connected to the difference between the change caused by Sheng's invasion to Moon and massacre of Egi, reconstruction of HonEel. Sylila, Holay and Tarsh seems different method to tame Barbarous customs. Maybe it is much influenced by political power in the center of Empire. (Tarsh Dynasty is maybe more oppressive toward Sartar than other Orlanthi provinces) I don't know how is Entekos worship in the Heartland of Empire, but if Valare Addi (she was a Dara Happan of Esvuthil) succeeded to gather many supporters of her heroquest, perhaps many converts appeared after her apotheosis.

Propitiatory Worship?
*Orlanth (aka Orlantio) At the Hill of Gold, always enemies of Yelmalio appears and gain a propitatory worship by heroquesters. In Imther, Orlanth always takes a role of Trickster (very strong, but vicious and disloyal) and roled as if he were Eurmal in Lightbringer's Quest in Heortling Myth, I don't know how much Vanch and Holay adopted these unique idea, IIRC, Harald told me Vanch is a patchworked area of Animal God worshippers, I don't know modern Odaylan's idea in these Alakoring Lunar stock. Maybe it also influenced by the mythology of Balazar, Talastar, Brolia or other more barbarous areas.

*Zorak Zoran (aka Orak) Support of Lunars to Troll Culture is perhaps not applied to Zorak Zoran worship for their hostility to Chaos and permanent enmity to Solar Culture, as Issaries com recently revealed about the propitatory worship, we need not to cover number of his small community of berserkers. Trolls maybe come and go to Hill of Gold for getting Fire Magic and Spirit.

*Inora (I can't remember how Imtherians call her) Queen of Snow on the mountain, and she always appears as a ruler of it, though she is the weakest of the four, she and her worshippers may set her center to the top of it, so she can gather more power than other Great Gods like Orlanth or Zoran.

*Lokamayadon (Talastar) and Mahzanelm (Dara Happa) In Enclosure, Harald Smith wrote about Mahzanelm's invasion to Saird. And some of document said he was killed by Lokamayadon. it seems that both of them appeared as Bad Guys by the document written by their enemies. And perhaps neither of them don't worshipped even by their homeland inhabitants for their cults were defeated by enemies so completely. Maybe Loko Moko or Mahzanelm appear as demons of their hostile culture.

*Jannisor Chaosbinder (Imther) Harald wrote muchabout him, he said his model is Daniel Boone in American Frontier colonization, (I don't know well about him) But Harald said Jannisor wears racoon cap and he is a woodsman from outside of civilization, (but he used the statue of Roman Emperor for him (M. Antoninus) and many Oddessey Image for him.) Harald said he was still worshipped by Imtherians though he antagonized to Lunars, maybe that is why the royalblood of Imther doesn't survive, for Lunars prevented their power and tried to decrease their number.

*Hwarin Dalthippa (Sylila) Originally, she was a daughter of Rufus and Dendara priestess, (so her cult writeup said.) She made some Roman Style architects like Daughter's Road and conquered many countries by Lunar Way, she incarnated as the local Goddess Reladiva and wedded with a member Orlanthi style society. She created Good Horse breed as Horse Goddess? and recovered the nymph of Rist after the Moonburn. I don't know how her worship was treated by the neighborhood.

What the relationship among Carmanian Lionine Bodyguard, Basmoli Empire before Dawn and Lionhead God "Basmal" (maybe changed) in New Lolon Gospel?

Dara Happan Rebellion

(When Jannisor found Vinyardavu. (As Harmast found Arkat in Underworld.))

He met Vinyardavu at Hill of Gold, Jannisor sought to find the way to drive Chaos from the Empire of the Sun. But he was merely a barbarian in the Dara Happan court. So he went the path of his god, Jajagappa who fought for his master, Tunoral. He was there in the atop of the Hill, and he was young and held delicate feature which only inheritated by Dara Happan noblest bloodline. He seemed melacholic but capable character by keenest eye of the Chaos-Binder.

Vinyardavu wore a necklace which shows the crucifix...Jannisor asked him,

"Who are you?"

Vinyaradavu stated with Firespeech,

"I am Vanyoramet, who came here for seeking the lost treasure from Dara Happa, the Orb of the Eye."

Jannisor puzzled and asked again with simple mundane language,

"But you are not Emperor, as Vergustus was not Emperor. Today, TakenEgi occupies his throne."

Vinyardavu spoke sorrowfully,

"I lost my bow, that was once the one of my uncle, Lukarius, Cap of Mernita don't truly substitute the role of it, and I found it will be recovered by the Shargash."

"Why don't you come here with your family?"

"I know I will meet here catastophy as my master Antirius mentioned. But I know he also said this act is required for the welfare of our world, I think my father-in law wronged, because he sheltered his empire and the center of the World, the Orb of the Eye always stayed over the Head of Antirius, but Roofer shut out him and cut the orb and Antirius, so people of the world forgot where was the center of the world, some barbarians thought the center is here, the Hill of Gold. But we Dara Happans know why we must make a Ziggurat as the artificial mountain. Because we will be conquered by the garden of the Wild if we submit to the Others."

"I see."

Jannisor said,

"I got a prohecy I will meet a man who I want here. You are the one. I know what do you want now, and you will martyr yourself and become the got of plant whose death would feed other vegetations, but Kazkurtum is too strong in your heart, your Empire. Postpone your desperate quest and come with me until I can prepare better condition."

(Now Vinyardavu roled Vanyoramet, before Jannisor roled Jajagappa the psychocomp, they started their rite when they sailed upstream from Raibanth to Alkoth, the river flow changed to that of Time and cycle of Yelm...)

"Seek the lost souls in the Library of Alkoth with your net, when Yelmgatha warped the Truth with the Lies of Gbaji. Librarians will help you. Here started the Lunar Empire because if Yelmgatha could not find GROY, he couldn't deceive himself. And wait here because the Underworld of Alkoth linked to the Deepest Hell, the Court of Silence where your master Bijiif waited there, we must gain the favor by the city of God of Alkoth, Shargash! Because he only knows how we can destroy the Bloody Taint in the Sky."

"But how?" Jannisor asked to his friend, "I cannot read any Dara Happan script."

Vinyardavu smiled and taught to Jannisor,

"That is one of your advantage rather than your defect in this plane the residents will imply you which book you should seek, why don't you try to learn reading?"

Jannisor replied,

"I know the disadvantage of writing of wisdom, because everything change in the nature beyond any circumspect, but Gods bestowed us how to arrange wisdom, but Dead wisdom in scrolls and Kralorelan papyrus bind a person to stagnant status."

"Good Answer, Alkothians "know" they never permit their library to deface, but there are nothing which cannot be defaced or changed in Mundane World....we can take advantage from their pride and we can see how Lunars tricked this innocense, and if you can took enough proof of sin to Solar Empire for Sedenya and Bloody Rufus, the God of Yuthuppa (Buserian) will persuade Yelm to order Shargash to execute them!" Vinyardavu departed.

(the Librarian and the Hero, Jannisor cut down many Demons which converted to Lunars in the library and they found what they hid.) "Come here, here is what you want, illiterate hero."

"Teach me, Amrihelm, were you truly Carmanian Soulless Sorceror?"

"Off of the topic, Dara Happa itself lies on the fabrication of the Yelmic Religion.
Do you know how Westerners and logical people of logic analyzed their system? Bastard races made Great Hibe of Ants from Illusion, primitive villages and hamlets changed to their illusionary God Plane."

"You don't answer my question."

"There is no time for you to interrogate me, barbarian."

(Horrible Heroquest in the Deepest Part of Alkoth.)

Mark Galeotti: About Raibanth and Amuli
To Martin Laurie and Wesley Quadros

>Darjiinite: Alkothians seems to hate most Darjiinites, for Religious Reason
>since E. Malarlavus, because Darjiinite made their own "Ziggurat to
>(It seems very unique solution that their culture made into Animistic
>Tradition, IMHO. And I, difficult to explain, Pelorians
>"recognize" Dara Happan Centralized System is required for Unity of Empire,
>as Japanese Daimyos require the existence of Emperor as their useful
>puppet.) Even Carmanians admitted the usefulness of passing 10 tests for
>ruling Peloria, I think maybe it is propitiatory worship, but I think
>sorceror Carmanians thought the ziggurat to Idovanus, and animist
>Darjiinites thought it to Manimat...

>Dara Happa: In Interview with Greg Stafford, I mentioned much similarity
>between the construction of DH GROY and RW Chinese Ancient Writing, like
>Shu-Sutra (or Shang-Shu, it treats Ancient Legends and Tradition as Judaean
>Moses 5 Bibles. Confucians studied this book for examination.)
>But Greg denied my idea because he didn't know enough about it. I think it
>is useful for understanding the complex of DH Religion, if good translation
>exists, (As Japanese Version.) maybe it is useful for your work. Perhaps
>Ovosto and Manimat, etc...are all local gods before Plentonius Analysis, or

>Several times, Oslira has sunk Yuthuppa and Raibanth in GROY and FS, and
>changed the route. Perhaps Martin knows more about it. My image is
>Constaninople to Raibanth, (but some resources from Persepolis aka Takht-e
>Jamshid). And Yuthupa is, Babylon and Tenochititolan surrounded by Lake.
>(Very self-centered...)

>Raibanth: I wrote rough sketch of Raibanth and Alkoth (I am a worst
>illustrator. But rather easy for Alkoth, because lot of writings exist for
>this city in Enclosure 1& 2, "Hinduistic" time perception, Wall Ring of
>Shargash and it never "surrendered" to outside pressure..). But I found
>difficulty to sketch Raibanth, and I puzzled the connection of city "Amuli
>or Amoli?" and Raibanth in Wesley's Lunar Empire Map. It seems Raibanth was
>divided since Murharzarm's Era by Joat River and Oslira. If one of Masks
>(?I forget his name / FS.) died in the rite of Heron Goddess in
>Dorkath, it seems it has been Darjiinite City because if Masks require the
>orgish style religion, Darjiinite Culture is closest to Glamour. Is my
>true? (But it is too close to Raibanth, and in this map, Amuli also exists
>the confluence of Joat and Oslira...)

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Galeotti" <>
>Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 12:00 AM
>Subject: Re: Hail to the true Emperor

>> Hi Terra,
>> I'm actually one of the co-authors of the whole Imperial Lunar Handbook
>> series - Martin and Wesley started the first book, and then I was brought
>> onto the project in March of this year.

>Very Good
>> Yes, the empire certainly isn't as Roman (or Soviet!) as the Reaching
>> crew suggest, but no historical analogy works that well, as you have a
>> Yelmic/DH base culture (which is quite Sassanid), then a much more modern
>> Lunar culture overlaid onto it - in some places this is purely skin-deep,
>> elsewhere it has had a very significant impact on local society and
>> tradition - and then also the indigenous cultures of the constituent
>> regions, from Carmania to Darjiin. It's a huge project, but Martin,
>> and I are working on a gazzeteer of the whole empire, detailing every
>> and cultural grouping...but it will take us a long time to finish that!
>I think...very long way to the goal, I think many traditions since
>Plentonius were lost during the many cataclysm, even for a sort of most
>staunch Darjiinites. As Praxian Oases Folks, There are always guys "Who
>cares?". Of course, this idea is cruel as ideas of Dark Shahs..

>Greg's Lunar Novel seems to explain how Sheng Seleris's Destruction and
>HonEel's Reformation changed the structure of Empire.

>> If DH and urban life is your main interest, then ILH-2 will be the book
>> you, as that is entirely about the Yelmic regions and will have a lot
>> the cities.

End of The Glorantha Digest V8 #648

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