> >Is defiant a category of exception to such rules, or essentially a synonym
> >for any possible such exception? For example, if someone got a brainwave
> >and wrote up some minor otherworld entity, and decided (just for yucks,
> >or some deep reason) that it should be "defiant" is there some rule of
> >thumb we might use to judge whether this was on the right lines or not?
> Yes: does it add to your story?
If I started applying this principle to "misapplication" and "defiance" too energetically, there's not telling where it'd end... (Or maybe there is, actually.)
> The Underworld is another Shared World, a part of the shared human Middle
> World. The Shared Human Middle World exists in time, hence a variety of
> Hero Planes of the "past." Not exceptions at all: just the rule.
So the Underworld is a Heroplane, then? Or rather a number of "different" Heroplanes? (The U/W of the Golden Age, the Storm Age, etc...)
> >What about draconics?
> nope.
> > Are they in some sense in more than world, or in a Shared
> >Place that's not strictly in any of them, or...? (I appreciate that
> >this isn't necessarily going to be a clarifying example so much as
> >a further-befuddling one.)
> Any Shared World is not really relevant. You have to go thought the
> barriers to go from world to world. You can not go from one Otherworld to
> another.
This seems the oddest one to me. I'm not sure if this imples there is no draconic "other side", or if it means the draconic o/s is part of the inner world, or yet another short world... But then again, it'd be pretty far down my bumper list of things I'd ever expect to be sure of. (If anyone knows anything about draconic stuff, they won't tell me... If anyone tells me anything about draconic stuff, I assume they don't know anything.)
> >though I
> >admit I might just be being a bit of a RQ2/3 hag here. Meself I
> >prefer to think of these simply as "Mythic Ages".
> Think as you like, but in fact, the Storm Age is a Hero Plane (several, in
> fact).
I don't see how this is "fact" rather than "terminology". If someone in Glorantha (e.g. the Heortlings, perhaps?), I can see some merit in persisting with it, otherwise I think it obfuscates more than it reveals.
> >"Heroplane" still
> >conjures up to me images of the Sky World, etc (perhaps better called
> >the Outer World), places that are inhabitted my "Hero Scale" entities.
> This is true too. her Planes has several applications. What they all share
> is that supernatural quality/magnitude events/being exist opening there,
> whether it is Altinela or Barntar's Stead.
So (a) "Heroplane" is, then, anything part of the Shared/Centre/Middle World, that is _not_ the mundane world of the "present moment" (or the Underworld?), is that a feasible working definition?
> >(Maybe back in the Golden Age all warriors were Heroically Good, say,
> I wouldn't say this is so. The Golden Age didn't know anything about good
> or bad.
> Also, populations of ordinary people existed then, just as now.
I'm going here in part by RiG's "sample resistances" for Golden Age Warriors, etc, which (IIRC) are medium-huge. But this is a minor point...
> >but we have considerable evidence that this was not so in the Dawn
> >Age, for example...)
> Dawn Age etc. are historical and different from the Mythic Ages in that
> they occur after the Great Compromise.
OK, point taken, my terminology sucks as much as the next man's...
> >Now, what about the Outer Worlds of the Mythic Ages? (What I'm struggling
> >not to call "the heroplane of the heroplane...") Presumably if I go
> >to the Sky World of the Storm Age it's _not_ unchanged from that of
> >"today", but equally I'd expect it to be both less changed, and more
> >"subjective" than the mundane worlds of those Ages. So are such places
> >in the Otherworlds per se, or not? Are they "somewhat" in them?
> The Upper and Under worlds both exist as mutable parts of the universe:
> parts of the Center World. They can change according to the Age when you go
> there. If you go there and do anything, they take on the appearance and
> substance of the world you are going to.
OK, so they're not part of the GP, but in some sense are closer to them, and closer to each other, than is the mundane world (of the present). i.e., the Sky World of the Modern Age is a likely route to both parts of the Gods World, and the Sky World of the Golden Age, without being part of or identical with either.
> You'll get to go there soon enough in the Great Dragonrising scenario.
> Kallyr is looking for trusted volunteers to help her out to raid the sky.
One of my PCs is a biiiiig Kallyr fan, incidentally, and I'm sure would be up for this. Mind you, my betting is that she gets him killed off next year, long before he gets the chance (tonight we're playing 1612...).
> >It seems to be that some quests must involve _all_ of the above. For
> >example (once again) Orlanth's LBQ. This starts in the "mundane world"
> >of the Storm Age (O. being more "personified" in them days...), heads
> >into the Outer World of that Age, then ends up in both the God World
> Some of the hero Plane Eras have a collapsed cosmos. The LBQ takes place in
> a time when the worlds have merged, or overlapped or not finished
> separating. The Great Darkness/Chaos Age is the time when all the worlds
> have become one place.
Good point, and one you'd mentioned before: my bad.
> >and the Underworld. Or is that an even more confusing way of looking at
> >it?
> It doesn't confuse me terribly. I am happy to use this discussion to help
> suss this out for other people.
Good (on both), and thank you kindly (on the latter).
Cheers,
Alex.
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