Joerg, replying to me:
> >So (a) "Heroplane" is, then, anything part of the Shared/Centre/Middle
> >World, that is _not_ the mundane world of the "present moment" (or the
> >Underworld?), is that a feasible working definition?
>
> I.e. including the magical valleys and slopes up the Quivin Mountains?
I suspect those would be not so much '_not_ the mundane world of the "present moment"', as both in that, and in... some other place. (Barrier- weakening, co-location, etc.)
> One thing that irritates me is the issue about misplaced nodes in the Storm
> Realm (Aeolus) and similar occurrances. If I (as an Aeolian) want to go from
> Aeolus' node to Stormstead, which way do I have to go?
I feel your pain... It makes no sense to me that such cases would be as "discrete" as Greg's model implies. Not only are some practices "more correct" than others given a particular method of worship, but seemingly there's a clear, unambiguous "crisp" transition from "completely correct" to "completely wrong", corresponding to a "change of world" requiring some overt act on the part of the HQer -- shades of grey being cosmologically impossible.
> Another thing which really really really bugs me is how do I get my
> companions along? Will I get my Enferalda supporter back"boy" through
> Karulinoran to Thrinbarri, or do I have to meet her somewhere on the way? Is
> there any way to bring an adopted stranger (say a Yelmalio warrior) with me
> by casting him into the role of an accepted stranger known at Stormstead?
> What about non-theist followers a Heortling returning from a
> circumnavigation might want to take along on his next quest?
I don't know that that'd necessarily ruled out. They might not be able to help much in the "entering ritual", but could (I'd presume) still be one of the subjects of it. i.e., they get "carried in", if they co-operate at least minimally.
Greg on me on dragons:
> >This seems the oddest one to me. I'm not sure if this imples there is
> >no draconic "other side", or if it means the draconic o/s is part of
> >the inner world, or yet another short world... But then again, it'd be
> >pretty far down my bumper list of things I'd ever expect to be sure of.
> No one goes to the dragon world, if there is one. If there is something
> like one, no one can tell what it is. Even the dragon worshippers who go
> there, if there is one, do not perceive it as a place.
Or perhaps equally one might say that the "dragon world" is _all_ the world(s), which the "dragon-minded" do not preceive to be truly distinct.
> >> >"Heroplane" still
> >> >conjures up to me images of the Sky World, etc (perhaps better called
> >> >the Outer World), places that are inhabitted my "Hero Scale" entities.
> >> This is true too. her Planes has several applications. What they all share
> >> is that supernatural quality/magnitude events/being exist opening there,
> >> whether it is Altinela or Barntar's Stead.
> >
> >So (a) "Heroplane" is, then, anything part of the Shared/Centre/Middle
> >World, that is _not_ the mundane world of the "present moment" (or the
> >Underworld?), is that a feasible working definition?
> No, not exactly.
> Altinela is part of the Hero Plane because of the magnitude of beings that
> live there, because of the proximity of the gods (and chaos) and so on. It
> is outside of the normal world, but on the edge.
> I am sorting out the vocabulary at the moment.
It'll take some sorting, I reckon. ;-) It's very unclear to me what the "defining characteristics" of a HeroPlane are: is it someplace heroicscale being are found (e.g. Storm Age Star Captains)? Is it someplace heroic-scale beings _go_? Is it some combination of the above/neither of the above?
> >> >(Maybe back in the Golden Age all warriors were Heroically Good, say,
> >> I wouldn't say this is so. The Golden Age didn't know anything about good
> >> or bad.
> >> Also, populations of ordinary people existed then, just as now.
> >
> >I'm going here in part by RiG's "sample resistances" for Golden Age
> >Warriors, etc, which (IIRC) are medium-huge. But this is a minor point...
> If you seek warriors out they are like to be demigods, but normal people
> exist too, in droves.
So are you saying all the Golden Age warriors _are_ Heroically Good, or not? Is the phenonemon of only encounteroing Heroic Scale opposition a function of the principle of equivalence, perhaps? (i.e., the only people from another plane/era have gone through a W3 barrier to do so, and did so with intent, so are pretty tooled up...)
> >OK, so they're not part of the GP, but in some sense are closer to
> >them,
> Or perhaps more correctly, farther from the mundane world
Fair enough, though the two seem not entirely unrelated to me...
> > Sky World of the Modern Age is a likely route
> >to both parts of the Gods World, and the Sky World of the Golden Age,
> >without being part of or identical with either.
> You'd have to go through the God World (or some other Otherworld) to get to
> the Sky World of the Golden Age.
> It is easier to get to the Sky World by going to the God World than it is
> to go there from the physical plane. It is considered to be impossible to
> sail on a ship to the edge of the world and, from there, ascend to the sky.
> It is considered impossible to fly upward to the sky world. And so on.
Yeah, certainly a "physical" way to get to the Sky World seems perversely difficult, or at least, perversely Western. But let's suppose you've gotten into the "modern" Sky World, by some magical, ritual means. How do you get to one of the "other" Sky Worlds? Is that necessarily via the God Plane? (Ignoring the other modes for the time being.) Is it perhaps the case that the God Plane in some sense represents everything "common" to the Sky World from era to era, being itself eternal?
Enlightenment and confusion continue to contend within me...
Cheers,
Alex.
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End of Glorantha Digest
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