Re: Flame ages

From: Chris Lemens <chrislemens_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 21:04:02 -0700 (PDT)

Lord Julian:
> > > Yeah well, here's why this sort of thread is
> > > called "speculative".

Alex Fergus' Son:
> > It might help if you mark your speculations as
> such, especially where
> > they might otherwise resemble assertions.

Julian:
> Battle of the Straw Men : Episode 55 : Nit-Pickers
> of the Gods ....

Actually, I think this is one of Alex's few good points. Julian, you do tend to mix speculation with known fact rather freely. Simply saying "The sources say . . ." or "I think . . . " before any statements that might go either way seems useful in this forum.

Julian, accusing Alex:
> sheer argumentativeness

Surely, that's Sheer Argumentativeness 4W10?

> Except for the * small detail * that [the purported
> Black Age] is of the Underworld,

I disagree that Black Age (assuming it exists) equals underworld. For one thing, Aldrya lives there. That part's pretty green. Perhaps that's why you said "is of" the Underworld, rather than just "is" the Underworld?

Julian, accusing again:
> Anyways, you are guilty of synecdoque here

Huh? Translation to Texan fails. Looks like a document in the synagogue?

Greg, replying to someone:
> > > The real problem here is that it appears from
> > > the sources that the "elemental progression",
> > > the actions of the Gloranthan Court, the Five
> > > Movements, the

separation/devolution/"re-mixing",
> > > were actually concurrent processes ; which is,
> > > of course, _why_ the elemental eras prior to
> > > the Green Age are so hard to understand.

> They were concurrent because no consciousness
> existed to separate time and space.

That's pretty subjectivist, even for me. Can't we say instead that anyone attempting to experience them through heroquesting is unable to distinguish when and where they happen (and for that matter, which events cause others)?  

> Yes, basically because the Green Age ends when
> humanity's human consciousness begins.

Or perhaps inidividuals' consciousness, including Uz, merpeople, etc. (though not Aldryami, interestingly). You could say that humans were conscious in some sort of group fashion (like the Aldryami) before that.

Greg replying to:
> >Chris Lemens:

. . .
> This is pretty much correct.

Yay! Score one for me.

> Note that if they do get to the "blue age" then they
> disappear as individuals.

I was thinking that any Black Age would negate individuality entirely.

A Blue Age would allow for the acknowledgement that different things exist -- that when going from A to B, A is not the same as B -- but with the utter inability to say when or where the difference occurs. This is the "formless blob" stage.

The Green Age allows for an understanding of things being separate and even being able to say when or where they are different. Otherwise, we would really be unable to visit it at all. But there is some significant inability to place meaning on any difference. Sure, you and me are separate things, but so what? I don't really get the why of it.

When the Golden Age begins, the difference is clear. You and I are separate. The stifling order of the golden age is an attempt to impose a meaning on the difference.

Or that's my rudimentary feel for it. It's enough for playing and that's all I really care about.



Chris Lemens

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