Stygian Autarchy, Lanksti Orlanthi

From: TERRA INCOGNITA <inarsus-ferilt-z_at_mrg.biglobe.ne.jp>
Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:48:17 +0900


Dear Sirs:

HW was mainly written for 17C Sartar, Lunar Empire. Not for Gbaji Wars and Arkat.

I began to think about magic and doctrine of Stygian Autarchy before Return to Righteous Crusade killed the Last Autarch Pazlac, God Learners destroyed for the work of C02 and my Alakoring graffiti:

First, Godlearners robbed them their HQ secret (and Godlearners were also destroyed.) and erased their memory through ordinary (or sometimes, unique) method. (But Outerspace Explorers could not find the Well of Stardum (Sorry, misspelling, Troll Gods)) So I (and any other GMs or Narrators can makeup new setting relatively easily) We don't know whether truly Pazlac was the heir of Arkat blood and the Mistress Race troll as Arkat became in troll legends or not.

Second, Dorastor: Land of Doom and Lords of Terror taught us why Arkat could (relatively easily) switch his cult and drive agents of reprisal through the "philosophy" illumination. Peter Metcalph taught me it is connected to Eastern Philosophy and Mysticism.
http://www.btinternet.com/~Nick_Brooke/moonie/illumination.htm

Third, maybe Arkati had done same before Godlearners killed them on Hero Plane, preserved the "original status" of God Plane and Hero Plane. "Their HeroQuesters lost touch with the basic rule of Arkat: 'No questing without respect and humility.'"(Thank you, David Dunham.)

Fourth, I should confess I don't know precisely who began to call Arkati Empire as "Autarchy". But if I can guess the origin of this term, Gene Wolf's "The Book of the New Sun". In this complicated and difficult SF series, dying Autarch told Severian why Civilization and Technology should be halted, and Nick Brooke hinted the "philosophy of cave" of Platonic Philosophy, control of gnosis for Idealized World. But I don't know how it can
be linked to Trollish pragmatic, materialistic attitude toward metaphysical philosophy (except few exception).

Fifth, each of minor districts are administrated by the title Archons (so still many of Safelstan Lords are still called by this title), and it was rather "a complicated network of obligations and cults (Greg Stafford)" than like of monolithic empire of RW Orient. (Though I cannot find difference between it and Nysalor Empire from the point of view, or truly Arkat "is" Nysalor Gbaji.) But I think areas imposed "Arkat Tax" through Trollish Overlords included much of Ralios, Maniria, Dragonpass and Peloria during his living in Ralios (450-500)

And there is difficulty why Arkat switched fluently his cult in the limitation of Hero Wars rule...(though if Illumination is included in Mysticism and
considering the current status of it in the plan of Hero Quest rule...I cannot say anything) there is almost any advantage to switch except he can gain the knowledge of Hero Quest and can erase the "Alien World Penalty Modifier" or turned it into his (and / or his worshippers) advantage (maybe it is Arkati peculiar illumination power?). (I still think Arkat could use "Death=Severspirit" as Humaktson,,,though both HW 1st Rule and Peter Metcalph's memo denied the man who achieves more than one Secret.)

All is IMHO. But I think Arkat was used his Sorcery Knowledge to enlarge the boundary of Stygia across four world system, and imposed by Seshnelans (and later) Godlearners who felt menace by control of hero plane(s) by Arkati who thought Underworld is good. I think Godlearners used different conclusion from Brithini philosophy (and science?) and literally "changed" their World for defeating Stygians. They induced Orthodox Rune System and secretly changed the mindset of people of their domain. (Now do I try to hinder Robin Law harmonized World system...?) There is no Stygian Sorcery before Arkat. Though Animism and Theistic Worship were ancient before historical age.

I think Boristi and Galvosti are remnants of Arkati trollish pragmatic rule to rebels (like Black Sun Cult in Kingdom of Ignorance?) and mad Godlearner experiments....I know generally Orthodox Malkioni ban tap, but maybe my view about it is distorted....

>*How to destroy Herodom (Zzaburi, Mostali & Godlearners)
>*Stygian Enlightenment (Arkat's Evolution to Kortagisson)

Julian Lord:
> Greg :
>
> > >> The Underworld is another Shared World, a part of the shared human
Middle
> > >> World. The Shared Human Middle World exists in time, hence a variety
of
> > >> Hero Planes of the "past." Not exceptions at all: just the rule.
> > >
> > >So the Underworld is a Heroplane, then?
>
> > In essence, yes.
>
> Hmmm : Thanks for that qualifier ! ;-)
>
> I believe that the surface areas of the Underworld, those nearest the
> Middle World, are part of the Hero Planes. When you go any deeper,
> that's no longer strictly true, and in the deepest places it's not true at
all
> (although you do have to go *very* deep to reach that point).
>
> I *really* like the Underworld BTW !
>
> > > Or rather a number of
> > >"different" Heroplanes? (The U/W of the Golden Age, the Storm Age,
etc...)
>
> > One, but made up of many parts all mixed it. A characteristic of the
> > Underworld is that it is never made up of one kind of world, but is
mixed
> > bits from all of them.
>
> ... and, unless I'm mistaken, there are also parts of the Underworld that
> *are* pure ; especially those ones furthest removed from the Middle
> World, such as those areas where Primal Chaos seeps into Glorantha, or
> those inside the very scary Black Age (pre-Blue Age Glorantha, viz.
> Subere write-ups etc).
>

Julian Lord:
>
> Basically it's from our knowledge that the Underworld has a link to
> Ultimate Reality.
>
> The Underworld is a mixed place, like the Middle World, and therefore
> has its own areas of higher purity : Underworld Spirit stuff, Underworld
> essences, etc. This in both the upper and central parts of the
> Underworld (NOT to imply that normal Underworld geography as such
> doesn't exist, such as where Bijiif's throne room is, etc ...).
>
> The Black Age is pure in itself : a remnant of pure pre-Blue Age
> Glorantha, lnked to Ultimate Being, uncorrupted by subsequent
> upheavals (but not previous ones) ; in its deepest place, this is
Glorantha
> at the exact moment that it came into existance, and is thus
> "transcendental" Reality, in all senses of the t-word. Similarly, the pure
> Chaos areas of the Underworld are directly linked to Ultimate Reality,
> although I think that it would be a contradiction in definitions to call
> this state of being an "otherworld". Is the Black Age an Otherworld ?
> I've no idea ...

Alex Ferguson:
>
> Julian:
> > Basically it's from our knowledge that the Underworld has a link to
> > Ultimate Reality.
>

Alex:
> Greg was very vague about that, I thought. I can't remember what he
> said, though I do recall him being asked, and I do recall thinking
> "hrm, that was a not entirely certain-sounding response".
>
>
> > The Black Age is pure in itself : a remnant of pure pre-Blue Age
> > Glorantha, lnked to Ultimate Being, uncorrupted by subsequent
> > upheavals (but not previous ones) ;
>
> This sounds to me to be _in effect_ an analogue of the Green Age, then.
> (i.e., it's the uz "version", or understanding of the "creation is
> on-going, things aren't yet meaningfully differentiated" part of myth).
> I don't know if it would be meaningful to say it was a "part of" the Green
> Age, or "parallel to" it...
>
> (I know that the sequence of creation is, in strictly elemental terms,
> Black -> Blue -> Green, but I very much doubt those correspond to distinct
> "Heroplanes", each. (Though I don't know that Greg has even been specific
> as to whether there are a discrete number of HeroPlanes... Or even if
they
> are arranged linearly... argh...))
>
> In any event, it sounds far from "pure", since by your construction,
> it's a Hero Plane ("Mythic Age" type...), and thus mixed; and as (one
> of) the very earliest one(s), it "predates" the 4-fold separation,
> and is thus by that logic also "mixed"...
>
>
> > in its deepest place, this is Glorantha
> > at the exact moment that it came into existance, and is thus
> > "transcendental" Reality, in all senses of the t-word.
>
> I can see why you'd say this, because there's nothing "before" the Black
> Age (let's dodge the issue of there being things "before" the Green
> Age as such...). But things like the Wonderhome myth are obviously
> very "late" after First Creation, by that measure; the actual 'moment'
> of Creation is something only the mystics would dwell on over-much,
> and them not in the least lucidly to any non-mystic.
>
>
> > Similarly, the pure
> > Chaos areas of the Underworld are directly linked to Ultimate Reality,
> > although I think that it would be a contradiction in definitions to call
> > this state of being an "otherworld".
>
> I think I'd need to see nailed-down definitions of all the above terms
> before I'd be drawn into agreeing or disagreeing with either of the
> above propositions...
>
>
> > Is the Black Age an Otherworld ?
>
> > I've no idea ...

Greg Stafford address to Julian:

> >CoT explicitely mentions that the elemental progression / devolution
> >mythology is only _one_ way of looking at the cosmogony, but also
> >suggests that it's a valid one (among others).
>
> It is the Western methodology of viewing the progression. While the GL
> could make the other cosmologies fit it, it isn't a part of the others'
> stories.
>
> >However, the serial structure of the monomyth actually isn't incorrect :
> >the Young Elementals of Lunar mythology appeared in exactly that
> >same (Darkness > Water > Earth > Fire/Sky/Sun) sequence.
> Of course, this is a Lunar interpretation of the elementals, which came to
> them via the GL theories, and magic.
>
> >Weird critters like Aldryami, Voralans, Uzuz, and the like probably have
> >variant perceptions and memories.
> This is a key to understand why this can not be understood.
>
> >Yes, I agree : and it's important not to detail this too precisely,
because
> >the ambiguity and mystery are important to the game.
> This too is important, as a fact.
>
> >I'm actually interested in the Time Before People, and in understanding
> >the finer points of the GL elemental cosmogony, & how it does and
> >doesn't relate to the other Creation myths. I'm _not_ interested in
> >interpreting all other myths according to the GL model, except that I
> >find it interesting to know what a GL would think about these things ;
> >partially because many Genertelan myths and cultures were influenced
> >by GL RuneQuesting ; partially because the GL model is an accurate
> >description of early 17th century mythic cosmology (derived from GL
> >RuneQuest Sight).
>
> Here is the key:
> NO ONE can understand anything before the creation of people.
> Sure, something existed before People. But no one can go back thre because
> individual consciousness did not exist.

More Greg Stafford:
>
> RE: A "whole map" of the Ages
> In the discussion of the Ages I noticed someone had said something like,
> "We'd need complete maps of the ages to see where they overlap."
> Please note that NO ONE has such maps in Glorantha. Sure the GL have
> cobbled together maps (which serve as the source of the maps online) but
in
> normal practice no one goes wandering around the Hero Planes to map it
out.
> The myths which are HeroQuests are a story of what happened. The placement
> of different stories on one map gives a general picture of the Age, but is
> not to be considered a map in the modern sense. Did Thrinbarri Fields and
> Howling Shore exist together? No, they are in different myths. Can a
player
> hero go on one of those quests, depart from the path and find the other
> place? Yes, but not always in the same way, same place or with the same
> entities. In fact, they may be the entity responsible for making" that
> event by their travels.

Greg said no one can use the map of Underworld jointly except companions who participated in Original HQ Underworld (Supplement Con in Japan)

David Dunham to Jonas Shiott:
> At 15:59 +0200 02-05-09, Jonas Schiott wrote:
>

TI (Me):
> > > And the difference of Humath (Still hold some Wind and Storm Power)
and
> >> Humakt (He abandoned all of Air power).....and Carmanian "Humakt"...
> >

Jonas:
> >First, I don't think Humath is worshipped efter the First Age.
>

David:
> I think the change to Humakt was one of the things Arkat did -- and
> something that wasn't un-done until the Third Age (if they truly
> undid it).
> --

Thank you for this approval...IIRC, Lanksti was controlled a society circle of warriors (Humakti?) in Introduction to Glorantha Book? in old Japanese Edition Rune Quest 3rd Box. (which putting on the explanation of Hsunchen Culture, Praxian Culture, Theyalan Culture and Western Culture.) I think Humakti (or Humathi?) has had much political influence in Lanksti Orlanthi than other Barbarian Belt Death Cult.

David Dunham in HW List:

>(Me:)> I don't know Ralians fly to Top of the World as Talastari, (or
>> Heortling go to Kero Fin. )

>I think Top of the World has to be their Great Mountain.

Sorry, I'm still confused, there is one Greatest Mountain (Kero Fin) and there are Great Mountains for Heortling route into Storm realm. (ST term...)Do you think there is another high mountain (Nidan?) than Top of the World....? Or as Heortling of Heortland could not go to Kero Fin even in ritual before Colymer passed Cross Line, there is any other (illusionary?? or much real low) mountain for this purpose?

John Hughes:
>The Iceland settlement was unique, for most of its independent history
being
>free of enemies or external threats that would have prompted the
development
>of central authorities like clans or kingdoms.

And there is no sea and viking activity (perhaps magic works similar effect?). If I understand correctly (though there is not enough knowledge for me to say anything) Icelandic Parallel is much induced by Lismelder Campaign of Jeff Richard...I think before it, Orlanthi was much Irish..... (Though I love Njal's Saga)

David Dunham about Icelandic Name:
>but there might be some overlap (the
>way the Vikings used Njall, from Irish Niall

TI

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