Re: Mystic HQs

From: Joerg Baumgartner <jorganos_at_hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:48:31 +0200


>... and what special name would you use to describe a mystic HQ
>anyway ?

Temptations, for instance, trials, or transcendent experiences.

>>Whether this state of Cosmic Unconsciousness can be identified with an
>>age, as a GL (or someone else) would conceptualise it is the trickier
>>part, though, for me.

>Indeed, but it seems that the pre-Golden Ages are at least strongly
>contemporary with those states of Cosmic Unconsciousness, and
>further that going to those Ages (if possible) would demand that the
>Traveller abandon his conscious self.

>Which gets us back to the reason why these ideas cannot be proved.

Leave the Zero be until you have become One with the universal consciousness. Having achieved Oneness, then the One may deal with the zero. I doubt that mystics have any better answers here...

>>I imagine that few cosmogonies out-and-out
>>contradict the GL elemental progression

>The GLs were the ones doing the contradicting AFAIK, not the other
>way round ...

Is this Julian wearing his GL hat? ;-)

>>Certainly darkness being the "first
>>element" doesn't necessarily entail it being the first
>>concept/entity/state of being.

Being the first element having come from the One Mind, this predates the Ultimate of the Westerners as well.

>And that idea would be abhorrent to any Yelmite, Easterner, or
>Sedenyan (etc) worth their salt ...

Abhorrent to Yelmites, but to me the entire Yelmite worldview is based on some sort of self-deception. They even have a myth about how long it took Yelm to perceive his shadow...

Sedenyans will tell you that the cycles came first, and Easterners won't deny that Darkness may be an early manifestation of Antigod activity.

>But I still think that the GLs would have considered it as the first state
>of _physical_ being ; and given their basic materialism and humanism,
>probably the first state of >non-Divine/Created being, full stop/period.

Non-Divine (in a Western, non-theist sense) Being = 4th Action, maybe even 5th. Darkness probably is the earliest material in 2nd or 3rd Action, but comes after the Demiurge.

>More terminology problems. Certainly the GL conception is generally
>inappropriate to describe capital-M Mystic experiences : but of >course,
>most Mystics wouldn't actually seek to enter the Green or Blue etc Ages in
>the first place. Nevertheless, Green Age & Blue Age consciousness etc are
>"mystic" states of mind, in a broader sense of the word.

Closer to the Transcendent? Hmm. Not all Unconsciousness is Transcendance, or I'll join the Uisge dojo real soon.

>States of mind actually sought out more often via animist ecstasy than any
>other magical method (orthodox Mysticism is quite different, as you
>suggest), although it's also part of "deep" Western Materialism to attempt
>to gain a certain purity of physical existence as a God-created being that
>can involve a denial of personal Consciousness, as an Inner World Flaw.

>Or not.

Well put. What were you saying?



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