Re: Mysticism and Ages

From: Nils Weinander <nils_w_at_yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:31:14 -0700 (PDT)


Alex:
>
>> Don't the Buddhists have examples of people who have achieved
enlightnment
>> but have chosen to return to help people here? Similarly, Mystics in
>> Glorantha could experience a state of Unconsciousness and then
return to
>> share knowledge with others, or even to help others achieve the
state.
>
>Indeed. I think the Kralori are very much in this camp, for example.
>This is, though open to the counter-jibe that "by definition", if you
>_truly_ reached the ultimate state of consciousness, you would not
have
>come back. (Two forms of competing mystical oneupmanship: more
>compassionate than thou, and more transcendent than thou.)

Also, are the "common" Kralorelan mystic expected to do the bodhisattva thing and return, or is it only the dragon emperor who does that?

>> Troll Mysticism would concern becoming One with the Darkness, Merman
>> Mysticism would involve merging with the Waters. Both of which could
have
>> an element of returning to the Black and Blue Ages respectively.
>>Obviously, there would be more to it than this.
>
>These are probably not "mysticisms" in the Gregly sense, of being
separate
>ascetic practices. The above would describe, though "the mystical
part
>of uz religious practice (theism/animism)", etc.

To reduce the mutual confusion, I suggest calling it the "transcendent part of [x] religious practice" in that case, rather than "mystic".

>> Mashunasan explicitly says that mythical ages are
>> incorrect perceptions of states of consciousness, so
>> from a mystic PoV this kind of identification is both
>> true and utterly false IMO.
>
>That about covers that, then. ;-)

Pretty sweeping statement, huh? What I mean is that, yes you can map mythical ages on the stages of consciousness, but since mythical ages are an error in perception, doing this mapping, and thus implicitly acknowledging the error, is something you have to let go of in order to achieve the expansion of consciousness.

>> IIRC the transition to universal nonconsciousness is
>> misconceived as the Dogsalu War, i.e. the conflict that
>> ended the Creation Cycle (Green Age). Mashunasan does
>> not acknowledge any consciousness states that would
>> correspond to a blue or black age.
>
>Isn't that transition _from_? (Or do you mean working 'backwards', as
>a mystical exercise?)

Neither, Dogsalu's lust for Yothenara is the individual's yearning for the final universal non-consciousness. His defeat by Vith is the victory of the eternal mystical principles and his subsequent elevation to High God status is the reward of liberation in universal non-consciousness.

(If you ask me, it is Mashunasan's rationale for not dissing the Vithelan myths completely).




Nils Weinander

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