Tiger Sons

From: Richard Crawley <RichC_at_SYPTE.CO.UK>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:19:19 +0100


While we're on the subject of using figures for Gloranthan warriors, whatever happened to the Tiger Sons from RQ2?

I have a figure of a bipedal tiger-man which I think is one from one of the old GW Runequest boxed sets. Where are Tiger Sons to be found (Kralorela?) and could I reasonably use one in, say, a Wolf Pirates army? I seem to remember seeing a picture of one in an RQ3 era booklet.

Richard Crawley



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	Subject:  Glorantha digest, Vol 9 #123 - 10 msgs

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        Today's Topics:

  1. Re: The color of Maran Gor (=?iso-8859-1?q?Ian=20Cooper?=)
  2. Peltasts (Richard Crawley)
  3. Malkioni comments (Peter Metcalfe)
  4. Re: Glorantha digest, Vol 9 #122 - 12 msgs (Trotsky)
  5. Tessele (Jerome Blondel)
  6. BB and Maran Gor (John Hughes)
  7. Natural dyes and lunar cloaks (Mike Dawson)
  8. peltats and earth cults (Gregory Privat)
  9. Re: Glorantha digest, Vol 9 #122 - 12 msgs (Roderick and Ellen Robertson)
  10. Re: fun with racism (Karin Goihl & Daniel Fahey)
    • __--__--
	Message: 1
	Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:26:43 +0100 (BST)
	From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ian=20Cooper?= <ian_hammond_cooper_at_yahoo.co.uk>
	Subject: Re: The color of Maran Gor
	To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org
	Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org

	The official write up does give some information on
	this:

	Erantha Gor (red), Babeester Gor (black), Maran Devor
	(blue)

	There is no official line for other subcults though
	those black robes trimed with white a la Tarsh War
	seem to have caught on for Tarshite priestesses (they
	were used in KoDP too)



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-- __--__--
Message: 2 From: Richard Crawley <RichC_at_SYPTE.CO.UK> To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org Subject: Peltasts Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:11:10 +0100 Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org I would do peltasts somewhat uniformed so as to distinguish them from tribal warriors like their Orlanthi enemies or the Bush Rangers. Depends to some extent whether you want the parade ground or campaign look (though from Tarsh War it appears that the difference in one of degree only). I intend to do some Peltasts for my "Lunars in Pavis" Hordes of the Things army. I will use a variety of differently equipped peltast figures - different helmets, slight variations in shield shape - but paint them with one or two items of uniform equipment in common. Thus I think probably they will all wear dull red tunics and have similar shield designs but for the rest, anything goes. BTW if the Lunars eat Lunar Apples (tomatoes), might not "Tommies" be a good name for their troops? Richard Crawley
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Message: 3 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:33:43 +1200 To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org From: Peter Metcalfe <metcalph_at_quicksilver.net.nz> Subject: Malkioni comments Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org Terra: >And Black Horse County and aeolian finally lost their Arkatiness out of >older version unofficial Glorantha... The Arkatism of Black Horse County came from the Genertela Book p58 where a temple to Arkat is mentioned. >What is Malkioni? At the broadest, I would say that any religion that claims descent from the Land of Logic is a Malkioni religion. This applies even though the religion might use non-sorcerous magic (Carmanians, Vadeli). >Is there possibility that Arkat was a sort of Dark Mystic like Sheng >Seleris? ) I don't think he was. >Original Malkioni wasn't so intolerant to pagan worship, rather indifferent >to their errorsity. Or rather they considered that paganism among the peasantry could not be eradicated but merely controlled. It was the God Learners who showed otherwise. --Peter Metcalfe
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Message: 4 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:12:15 +0100 From: Trotsky <TTrotsky_at_blueyonder.co.uk> To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org Subject: Re: Glorantha digest, Vol 9 #122 - 12 msgs Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org TI: > What is Malkioni? Since I read the debate about the definition of Malkioni > between Martin and Peter while they touched carmanians in HW mailing list > post log. (IMHO, they are called Malkioni by Pagans, and non-Malkioni by > Pagans) I asked myself this definition. > > a) Sorcerers / Wizards using Intellect (Term? of RM) and Logic to material > world. > (But Mostali....) > b) Believe Malkion. (Yes, our enemies actually mistook Devil to the Supreme > God.) Technically, anybody who follows Malkion's teaching is Malkioni. This is not say that all Malkioni will agree that all other Malkioni are deserving of the term, of course! In practice, it's at least as vague as the term 'Orlanthi' incorporating Heortlings, Esrolians and many others besides. > c) Don't believe False God(s) (Yes, Saints are not False Gods, our ancestors > went Solace after Death though we cannot contact them.) > d) Draw Power from Sorcerer Plane (Adept Plane and Saint Plane. Not > Underworld!) Certainly mainstream Malkioni do all four of these things. Venerational worship is also a key feature. But there are some 'Malkioni' (that is, people who claim to follow Malkion's teaching) who don't have a problem with False Gods - the waertagi spring to mind. Obviously, Hrestoli and Rokari would never admit that these people are really Malkioni... -- Trotsky Gamer and Skeptic ------------------------------------------------------ Trotsky's RPG website: http://www.ttrotsky.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
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Message: 5 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:54:12 +0200 From: Jerome Blondel <bwbfc_at_yahoo.fr> To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org Subject: Tessele Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org Gian Gero wrote > Ok, but I read in the Glorantha site (thanks be given > to Google) that Stephen Martin wrote she has a Combat > Affinity and Dario Corallo paints her in the tradetalk > site as an elder shaman with a Y rune staff. > > Isn't she connected to the truth rune? (Altough all > this combat + truth rune stuff stinks of Humakti) Worshippers of her subcult appear to have been the runelords of the Caladra & Aurelion cult in the RQ era. I was confused by her nickname but the meaning of her Truth may be that she's true to her lost
love.
	There's also a fire rune on the Tradetalk picture, if that can help
	dissipate any other similarity with Humakt.

	> I suppose that if all the scanty references are those
	> ones, anything may go, but being also mentioned by
	> Belintar in his book I figured her to be more
	> important than a silver age shaman-hero.

	In his book she rather sounds like the goddess of Truth... I think
the
	scene takes place on the Godplane and Tessele the True, the Silver
Age
	hero, takes the role of the goddess of Truth here.

	Jerome

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-- __--__--
Message: 6 From: "John Hughes" <nysalor_at_primus.com.au> To: <glorantha_at_rpglist.org> Subject: BB and Maran Gor Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:43:34 +1000 Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org My companions passed within, to the fire-bright crystal shelter of the womb cave. I made to follow, unsure of my role, when I found my entrance full blocked by an axe-dancing demoness. "Hrrraaaiiiii!" It leered, screaming at me in some ancient and unhuman tongue. Karis flew into my grasp, raised to cut the monster if it advanced. I glimpsed violet, pupil-less eyes. Pale green-brown skin, knotted and rough, intergrown with shining sheets of copper. Otherness. A burnished axe festooned with grisly trophies-scalps, genitalia, finger bones. °^A Mreli. Earth Guardian. Pure with Death.^° - Helden. It's great that this topic has come up. The physical appearance of Gloranthans really doesn't get enough attention, and It's been occupying my attention much of late as I've struggled with my first Heortling 3D figures and questions like: 'clan tartans - yes, no maybe, like what?', 'torcs - silver, iron or tin?' and the perennial: 'Fighting Ernaldans: dresses vs sensible woollies?' I've not too much to add to what has already been said. I very much like the idea of small square shields. For me, Earth colours are primarily rich autumn reds, coppers, red browns and greens, together with your more usual by products of madder and woad. Nysalora-come-lately doesn't have a monopoly on red, nor is it confined to vingans. I think of Ernaldan 'fashion' as delighting in geometric, figurative designs of plants, animals and humans as well as the more usual runes. Hair styles are usually simple, married women wearing their hair in braids. There is a very precise tribal code that details marital and cultic status by the way you set your hair. I see BB Gori as making more use of limed hair and wild hairstyles such as mohawks to signify their umm liminal status, while Maran Gori will tend to go for richly oiled tresses. The Maran Gor rune is the divided earth rune: I'm sure this 'division' motif would feature in other ways in clothing and decoration as well. Ditto for BB's 'razor rune'. HOW TO IDENTIFY BB GORI 1. Is it a woman? This is always a good preliminary indicator. Go to
2.

        2. Is she drunk? If she is and you are too, and you're both outside the

        feasting hall, you may be safe. If she's foaming at the lips with blood

        beer, possibly not. Go to 3.

        3. Is she screaming at you, or otherwise hissing and spitting? Yes? If she's

        using your first name, its probably your wife or sister. Relax, unless your

        sister is a known BB Gori. Otherwise, run away very quickly, or go to 4.

        4. Is the ground trembling and shaking? Yes? Relax, its only a Maran Gori, a

        very large troll, a thunder beast stampede, or the fall of the red moon.

        Check again to make sure its not just your knees rattling. If all is quiet,

        run away very quickly, or go to 5. If the moon has fallen, have a drink on

        me.

        5. Is she carrying a big copper axe? Yes? Oh dear. And is the axe festooned

        with a collection of castrated goolies? It is? Here's hoping you've got a

	Movement feat. Whatever you do, don't call her 'Babs'. Run away very
	quickly, convert immediately to Nandan, or go to 6.

	6. Check the wing decals (tats and body paint) as you cower behind
your
	shield. You don't have a shield? Do this bit very quickly then. If
she *is*
	painted, you may want to skip the entire section and imitate the
wind. It's
	very simple really. White on the right and green on the left means
you're
	relatively safe, unless you're dead already. She's killing spirits.
Red
	hands and feet with black arms and legs means you and all your male
buddies
	are in for it. It's an "I don't like men night". Red and yellow face
with
	with yellow and red stripes along the arms and legs means your
entire
	bloodline or clan is for it, so you won't die alone. Anything else
is a cult
	secret, and you really shouldn't be asking.

	Have a nice night.


	Cheers


	John

	____________________________________________
	nysalor_at_iprimus.com.au                           John Hughes
	Questlines: http://home.iprimus.com.au/pipnjim/questlines/

	And if the earthly no longer knows your name,
	Whisper to the silent earth: I'm flowing.
	To the flashing water say: I Am.





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Message: 7 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:24:41 -0400 Subject: Natural dyes and lunar cloaks From: Mike Dawson <mdawson_at_mac.com> To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org On Wednesday, June 19, 2002, at 05:42 AM,donald_at_grove.demon.co.uk (Donald R. Oddy) wrote: > There is no reason for red to be such a poor colour for ambushes > when you consider that only modern dyes produce the brilliant reds we > are used to. Deja Vu. I believe I've commented on this before, when someone else made the same assertion. I can assure you it's not true. Natural dystuffs can get some extraordinarily bright colors, from sun yellow to fuschia pink and yes, even bright red. My wife has a ball of yarn made up of about 50 different samples of naturally dyed string, with almost the whole range of modern colors in it. You can get a bright yellow from onion skins! In fact, one of the hardest things to get is a true black. Reds are easy in comparison. (That's why black velvet was often restricted from the lower classes in medieval sumptuary laws -- wearing it suggested you were high class, and that's why so many 16-17th cent. knights and ladies portraits show them in black velvet.) And of course, in Glorantha there's got to be dyer's magic. Not to mention all sorts of weird ingredients unavailable to medieval and ancient dyers. Remember the Pavic "Blood Vats" from Codex 1? Mike Mike Dawson mdawson_at_mac.com http://herowars.onestop.net "Granted it was mildly amusing. But I gotta tell you my 3rd eye didn't open." -- Nelson (Keanu Reeves,) Sweet November
-- __--__--
Message: 8 From: "Gregory Privat" <prax_at_chello.fr> To: <glorantha_at_rpglist.org> Subject: peltats and earth cults Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 15:32:14 +0200 Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org Thank you all for your answers... and yep, i think I got some Vinga stuff melted with maran and babeester... But you know, for us praxian, they re all the same. Peter : About war paints, where do the info come from ? Is it your creation ? I ll let you all know when the painting work is made and online... but feel free to go on giving your advices or complement info, cause i m still waiting for those mini to arrive in my mailbox ;-) Last : at last tentacle, someone was going to run a miniatures game set in Big Rubble but i think it was at same time as Tarsh Wars (All Hail the memory of the Char Un commander who died with honnor on the field !) I remember your face, but not your name... could you please contact me
?
	Gregory Privat
	--------------------------------
	pavis_at_free.fr
	prax_at_chello.fr

	http://pavis.free.fr/prax
	http://pavis.free.fr/gloranthanarmy



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Message: 9 From: "Roderick and Ellen Robertson" <rjremr_at_sierratel.com> To: <glorantha_at_rpglist.org> Subject: Re: Glorantha digest, Vol 9 #122 - 12 msgs Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:04:11 -0700 Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org > >About the lunar peltasts, I ve made the choice to use thracian tribal > >warriors, essentially because they got that first quarter moon shaped > >shield. For what i remember from thunder rebel, those troups are good at > >pursuit and ambushes and (here i m not sure) close to what miniatures > >wargamers call "irregular" troops. The question is do they wear an uniform > >like dress ? I wonder, because i do not figure thoses men dressed in red and > >preparing ambushes in the woods. Are they more like bush rangers in dressing > >principle ? (wearing disparate clothes and a red piece of tissue around the > >neck ?) dressed in green and brown ? are just the shields reds and other > >clothes in different colors ? any idea is welcome. Of course there s > >probably a lot of different peltasts units, but if you want to choose one as > >the "this is what the peltasts of the red army look like for me", please say > >it. > > Tarsh War describes peltasts wearing armour and equipment so shabby and > battered that it must be deliberate with what gear they haven't abandoned > wrapped up in their cloaks. This may of course be a prejudiced observers > opinion. There is no reason for red to be such a poor colour for ambushes > when you consider that only modern dyes produce the brilliant reds we > are used to. Given they are regular Imperial soldiers rather than militia > I would expect them to have a fancy parade uniform but campaign dress > being much more subdued and shabby. Note that not all elements of the "Lunar Army" wear red. The Empire encompasses many different nationalities, and similar troops between nations may wear quite dissimilar armor, weapons, and clothes. Units who retain the "old style" of their nationality will wear their traditional clothes, while only a few units are really "Imperial Lunar" who would go for the Red-and-White or Red-and- Black look. "Uniforms" would tend more towards the same color but in different shades than regimented "All troops will wear 'Napa Red' tunics". My own troops vary from regimented, all-one-color-pot tunics, to "well, this green is close to blue, I'll use that". Of course, I've got at least three lunar armies (Late Roman Empire, Greek/Macedonian, and Middle East Fantasy) plus some special units that don't fit any of those categories (Feathered Lancers from Rinliddi based on Polish Winged Hussars), so I've had plenty of opportunity to paint uniforms or not :-). The Tarsh War peltasts are modled on late Imperial Roman (ca. 300-500 AD), while Thracians (picking up the Foundry deal?) are much earlier - (400-200 BC). So calling both "Peltasts" means that they fight in the same manner, but equipment-wise they have entirely different looks. As far as clothing, you can do what you like! Dress them in brown, grey and green tartan for the camouflage look, or drab clothes with subtle colors picked out for trim, or "Imperial" colors (in suitable muted tones); put them in uniform, or not. Foundry has pictures of Thracian peltasts in their "Shop" section - check under "Thracian Collection". Roderick
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Message: 10 From: "Karin Goihl & Daniel Fahey" <goihlk_at_zedat.fu-berlin.de> To: <glorantha_at_rpglist.org> Subject: Re: fun with racism Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 23:25:40 +0200 Reply-To: glorantha_at_rpglist.org I'm absolutely stunned at the amount of response to this. >Boche from the French slang alboche, which was two words >allemand (German) and caboche (pate, head) put together. >Kraut comes from Sauerkraut (chopped cabbage), being part of >the German diet. Boche surprisingly is also related to cabbages. It >comes from a cross between Allemand (Fr: German) and Caboche >(Fr Dia: Cabbage, Blockhead). The resulting word Alboche was >shortened to Boche. Wow. More than I want to know. And here I was calling them things like "co-workers" and "gaming companions". The reason why I don't get "kraut" is because the people around here don't eat sauerkraut. I guess it's a southern thing, but people up here don't consider people down there human, and so don't mention their food. >pointing at the fanlight (or small window or ceiling >fan) and asking "was ist das?" (what is that?). This must have >happened quite a lot for the french now call such objects
"vasistas".

        This is great. This sort of thing could apply to many different things,

        the Sartarite word for soap, for instance.

	>"Foot" being close to the French Word "Foutre" (fuck)
	>and an archaic spelling of gown "coun" being similar to the French
	>"Con" (literally cunt but better translated as twat).  Which is why
	>Princess Katherine has to have a lie-down after her English Lessons
	>in Shakespeare's Henry V...

	Uhh. Like I said, more than I want to know. Absolutely fasinating.

	>Sorry, but I suppose you all have equally ludicrous
	>nicknames for us italians (Spaghetti etc.).

	How bout some names for Irish?

	>Going wildly OT, but maybe you can name the Lunars
	>according to their diet-habits, provided you know them.

	Or if you think you know them. People here think Turks eat
	lots of garlic. I haven't noticed this being true, but it's the
thought
	that counts, I guess.

	>Daniel "Bastard" Fahey:

	I also respond to You Bastard, "you" being the Praxian equivalent
	of "mister".

	>the Japanese also referred to europeans as "butter-stinking".

	Pretty reasonable to refer to people who rarely wash as stinking.

	>I can think of at last a dozen of other words to name our german
friends...
	I can think of more, (many being derogatory), but I have a distinct
	advantage here.

	>No offense for anyone, I hope. This is history now.

	History for you, everyday life for me...

	On the other hand I've just met the most lovely Polish girl...

	Is there anyone who hasn't yet contributed to this topic?
	Shall we start a new email list for this?

	As we've degenerated this far I'll ask the question which has been
eating
	me since my early childhood. Apparently my Grandfather (who was
valiantly
	wounded when he fell off a moving ammunition casson while drunk and
	received a life-long pension for this) brought back a song from the
Great
	War.
	I guess my Father was too young to pick it all up before my
Grandfather
	forgot it, but it includes the lines:
	"The French they are a funny race, they fight with their feet and
they..."

        Does anyone recognize this? I've been dying to hear the rest for 35 years

        now.

	>I'm informed that the hoary "which is the third member of the Two-
	>Legged Alliance" thread is considered officially as "one for the
	>Narrators". Which makes it GD fodder !! :

	Exactly!

	>I don't really like the idea that the Moros accuse most humans of
	>cheating, without an actual example of cheating by humans.

	My Morokanth friends say that all cases of humans winning are
	examples of humans cheating. They also cite humans who can speak
	as further proof.

	Daniel




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End of Glorantha Digest

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