Peter Metcalfe:
> > Pamaltela is the source of Animism. The whole material world is
> > alive as Nature because Pamalt can feel the pulsation of his
> > creator, Langamul, inside himself, although Langamul is dead.
>
> I don't think Pamalt is crucial to Life. Noruma, Aleshmara and
> Cronisper have the same relationship with Amuron
Surely I'd better say "all Pamaltela" instead of Pamalt. This is the pulsation of Langamul which is crucial to Life.
> >(In Gods of Glorantha, the spirit world is called the Breath World.)
> >Natural spirits inhabit the material world (Nature).
>
> I don't think this is quite correct. Note that Gods of Glorantha
> also states that when your breath dies, the mind and spirit go and
> sit in Pamalt's Council. But since Pamalt's Council is also on the
> Spirit World, the Breath World cannot be the entirety of the Spirit
> World.
In that case Um is within the Spirit World & separate from the Breath World (which is perhaps the inner part where Amuron is). I wasn't sure what Um really was but if so, this seems to answer my question about natural spirits (and Giants).
> >Pamalt = Intelligence
> >
> >Pamalt is the first person, who became the Great Chieftain of
> >Pamaltela, and the source of the Mind.
>
> He's not the first person - that was Noruma.
Ok, he's first "I am". He was a person only after he knew who the others were.
> Secondly if he was the source of Mind, then how come his first
> creatures, the Hroolar, are mindless? I think Mind is a poor word
> to describe what Pamalt guards.
What about "Self"?
> >[Adorators] cannot partake in shamanic worship though.
>
> I think it better to state that Adorators cannot be Shamans but that
> raises the question of what Shamans are supposed to be? Adorators of
> the Horned Serpent?
Maybe stuff about shamans was too obviously a big blank in my last post... But i had no idea.
I think shamans can show the other world to other people so that they can experience it. Adorators cannot do that, they can only help others get the experience by themselves. I think a shaman is a person with an innate ability to deal with such a huge disembodied entity as Amuron, mostly because they have a presence in both worlds at once, have learnt to control this, and have made a pact with Amuron so they can deal with a given set of spirits within it. To expand a bit:
Amuron is a disembodied entity, so in order to deal with it shamans must leave their body and this is dangerous. That's why they must have a fetch which is to be awakened during their shamanic initiation quest when they meet the whole Great Horned Serpent. When one is in the spirit world, the other is in the material world, so the fetch keeps the shaman's body warm when he's abroad, and can also protect the other people who are in the shamanic circle, maybe appearing as a Horned Snake which is terrifying to behold. Besides, shaman and fetch merge in the shamanic Fire so they are always connected.
Shamans cut Amuron into little bits because he is so big he frightens people away. Amuron's dismemberment seems to be part of its nature so that the little bits can travel between the two worlds but not all at once (which makes the multiplication of Life possible). Shamans (at least newbie shamans) can only control those bits which they have learned to integrate during their shamanic initiation quest (the spirits of the Tradition). The spirits are small enough for other people to integrate them or use their magic.
Adorators of the Great Horned Serpent would be Norumic mystics IMO (and shamans as well).
Jerome
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